@ Jest

I think your Lucky Island idea is good and will work well as part of the archipelago. I would recommend you go ahead and write that one before thinking too much about the others.

My own gamebook for this project had been held up a bit by life, but it's plodding along. I'm also battling again letting complexity creep in...

Gaetano
Fri Feb 21 05:13:50 2014

@ Ulysses @ Jest

I know what you mean. My own entry was going to be about 50 sections; it ended up going 85. I just had to wrap it up; it definitely could have been longer and the last sequence could have been better developed. But as the saying goes, "the perfect is the enemy of the good". So, for all the writers struggling with complexity, I say just sit down and write. Have a general plan, but be open to changing it as the writing proceeds.

Jest
Fri Feb 21 08:16:36 2014

Hi.
Thanks for the replys.
Just one question at the momment.
How much do you think an ordainship should cost? i have no idea, I mean free luck and stamina restoration for the rest of the game could be quite helpfull but also game changing I feel?
Also i could add a holy relic that you have to find (on someone elses island maybe) that has been stolen many years ago (maybe by the baron or pirates) that will do the job (or needed in conjunction with alot of talons) to gain ordainship.
Yet another idea I had was that if you approach the island and you are 'wanted' by the Baron (see Ulysses) you find that the island is blockaded by warships that are looking for you (the Baron has found out about your religion, and he doesn't like the religion anyway). Either fight your way through them (not easy) or try to flee.
For this I'd need to know the ins and outs of ship to ship combat that I know Ulysses is dealing with (I found a stat sheet for a ship at the end of the download of IOTC but can't find anything else).
And yet again I have a thousand and one ideas for this, which will make it a little more complicated than i believe was originally intended for IOTC, but I believe will make it more intresting and fun.
All help, replys and ideas are much appreciated.
Thanks.
Love this site and idea.
PS. Please tell me if i am treading on anybodys toes here.

Yaztromo
Fri Feb 21 12:01:05 2014

@Jest
I'm glad you're in!
My suggestion is to start with a simple and neat island, that will contribute to the general picture, specially if this is one of your first gamebooks.
Let complexity increase in next gamebooks, while you grow as an author as well.

At least, that's what I did: Hummingbirds Island is a small and simple gamebook, based on a simple background idea, more aimed at bringing "atmosphere" than anything else (that's the best I can hope to reach at the moment) and I hope will be a part of a mosaic that will be worth more than the sum of all its separate parts.
I managed to deliver such an idea quite quickly and now I can wait for the other entries.

I'm actually thinking about a second island that will be even more easy, simple and atmospheric (and based on a single, simple idea).
If I started from too complex premises (for my very limited ability), I'd still be stuck, and probably I'd be stuck until I lose focus and give up.
Maybe in the future I'll feel strong and able enough to deliver more complex projects.

Ulysses
Fri Feb 21 12:49:12 2014

@Jest

The only problem with your luck and stamina restoration is that we would probably want to have some sort of restoration occur every time a player sets sail as an effective reset. This could be limited to STAMINA of course, and your island could be the only place to restore LUCK. These are issues we haven't discussed yet.

I do think you need something to do on your island so that it works as an isolated gamebook; so a quest to become ordained is a good idea. After all, the order could be very exclusive, perhaps based on the idea that good and bad fortune must be balanced in the world, and so for even a few to be bestowed with good luck is no small thing.

Wanting to put up a blockade if the player becomes wanted is a nice idea that helps give the books some cohesion. However since not every island will have a blockade, there should be some reason that the blockade is there. An alternative could be just that the Baron has a trading post on the island which is protected by a few of his warships. The ships aren't maintaining a blockade, but are there and can possibly respond to the presence of the player's ship.

Regarding ship to ship combat I have devised a system for that. I'll try to put a description up here this weekend for everyone to review.

Jest
Fri Feb 21 22:18:09 2014

Thanks for the replys again. You're both dead right.

Ulysses. Basically what you are saying is there will most likely be a stat reset everytime you leave/approach a new island. I was asuming this wouldn't happen, but now I think about it it makes sense. Essentially you could go to another island, decide not to get off your boat and sail back, and have the same effect as paying for a blessing on my 'lucky' island.

You're right about the warships aswell. Blockade was too strong a word. The idea was to have a nasty surprise for the player when they turned up for a nice easy heal up. Oh well, never mind.

Looks like the idea is getting a bit thin now.
I surpose I could put a trading post on the island and the monks could be growing holy spices and other things that could be traded (live stock, pearls, fruit, any other ideas?) I'm guessing Ulysses your going to want/need somewhere to trade to/with/from Blackmauw? I'll add anything you want or need if you like (or anybody else). I'll need help with the prices though.

The search for a holy relic is still alittle intresting to me, though the reason to become ordained is irrelivent now. Maybe after ordainship or simply returning the relic you are given holy missions and/or given a holy weapon that gives a skill and/or damage bonus against the undead (ghost pirates/unholy ghosts and ghouls?)
Maybe the religioin is in direct comptition with the Barons new religion/cult, and he only tolerates it because of the strong trade links (but is secretly planning on taking the island)?
So many darn ideas, not enough time.
Thoughts?

Yaztromo
Sun Feb 23 01:39:31 2014

Actually I like the idea of a Lucky Island: you just need to find the right mechanics and story to make it work (and make it an enjoyable experience for you as well...)!

There may be a one-off bonus/benefit to grab (maybe connected to the relic you mention?) and then something more staple for each time you go there after getting the bonus thingy.

Yaztromo
Tue Feb 25 14:08:05 2014

BTW Hummingbirds Island is a place where LUCK is quite important and if you don't have a re-set every time you leave an island, it may be good having a place where you can recharge your LUCK.

Thinking about it, if you have a ship you could just sail away and then sail back to "reload" every time you are a bit in trouble... probably we'll need to put in place something to prevent abusing this.

Ulysses
Wed Feb 26 05:42:11 2014

Re: stat resets

One way of avoiding abuse of resets is rather than giving resets when leaving an island to grant a reset when reaching the valid ending of an adventure. That way you can tackle each island in turn with full stats each time as long as you go through the entire adventure. There are some islands you are able to leave without completing the adventure, and if you do so it's very appropriate that you don't get any help since you are slinking away like a lowly coward!

Yaztromo
Wed Feb 26 08:34:56 2014

Hem... sorry to be nosy, but I'm really curious and excited about this... how are the work in progress gamebooks of the Tales of the Birds Islands coming along? :-)

Ulysses
Thu Feb 27 03:46:18 2014

Re: Progress

I've probably written about half of mine in terms of references used (it will total about 100). But maybe only a quarter in actual words since I've written all the technical, cyclical passages first to handle multiple visits and general navigation around the island. The actual story parts I haven't done much of yet.
To make matters worse I'm very busy with other things and may not get a chance to write much for a few weeks.

Hopefully there will be some other gamebooks submitted, and the ship combat system proposal I promised last weekend I'll be able to present this weekend.

Anyone else who is contemplating writing an adventure, please tell us about your island. Any ideas that aren't fleshed out can be discussed here.

Yaztromo
Thu Feb 27 09:30:27 2014

As I wrote previously, I started a small atoll, rather than a "proper" island, that will be mostly a "flavour" entry (pretty much polinesian setting).
At the moment looks like it will be some kind of reverse paradigm, as it will be so good that you may forget adventuring alltogether and settle down there, enjoying the sun and the beach.
It's just another kind of "instant failure", but a bit more pleasant than being swallowed by a beat of diced by some trap or poisoned by a hidden needle on a spring...

Yaztromo
Thu Feb 27 09:31:52 2014

Silly typos!
"It's just another kind of "instant failure", but a bit more pleasant than being swallowed by a beast or diced by some trap or poisoned by a hidden needle on a spring..."

Jest
Thu Feb 27 13:17:47 2014

Hi all.

Very nice to read all the replys.
Thanks.

Ok.
So my blessing/Luck restore idea is back in?
I had all but ditched the idea and was going to sell luck potions (or something) at my islands trading post, though I did much prefer my original idea.
So how much should a blessing cost do you think (anyone)?
10 or 20 Talons I guessed at first (the price of 1 or 2 hyena pelts).
The religion as a whole is down on its luck (get it?) and needs the money. I don't know if this should make it more expensive or cheaper. An idea I had was to make it reasonably expensive to start with, and have the price slowly reduce as you gain the trust of the Monks?
So is this too expensive or cheap?
The thing is I believe it costs 10 talons to leave Goi-Han (if you don't own your own boat) and even then there is a luck test to survive? (You leave Goi-Han for the 'Lucky island' because you need to restore your Luck, only to die on the journey there because you were unlucky? What is that? Unlucky?)
I believe this was mentioned somewhere else and I agree it should be changed. Maybe if you were unlucky you don't restore any stamina due to a rough journey? Or something, if anything?
So essentially a blessing that costs 20 Talons would cost 30 (as long as it costs the same amount to travel to the 'Lucky Island' from each Island (probably noy I'd assume).

Progress report:

Well I've been busy.
My 'Lucky island' idea has ballooned from the simple 'Temple + Monk + paying for a blessing of Luck' idea to something longer, more fleshed out and complicated (it allways happens to me).

I've thrown myself at the trading post idea (thanks Ullysses) and my island and religion have grown significantly.

The Barons men and there warships are harrassing the trading post and the islanders in general. It's not looking good for the poor Monks, they are out numbered, out gunned (or sworded?) and out boated. If only there was someone (a hero maybe?) who could help them out of this sticky mess (if they want to that is).

The search for the stolen Holy relic/symbol is also back on (I couldn't resist) and it's not going to be easy. I might need it hidden in someone elses gamebook/island (I'm not sure how difficult this will be, i'm expecting it to be easier if I mention it earlier rather than later). It has't got to be too difficult to find (there's a catch), maybe in the easiest to find buried treasure or a ship wreck (I'm sure there are going to be plenty to find).

Actually now i think of it, would it be possible to hide it on/around the ship wreck on Goi-Han? Just an Idea? It would give a reason to return to the island other than to complete the Cyclops challenge (if you left before completing it) and of course pelt collecting. And don't worry, of course I wont make it so easy to find that it's possible to get it straight away on the island that you start on.

Yet another place I thought would be cool to hide it is with the guy on Hummingbird? I don't know how he could have gotten hold of it but he seemed like a shady character?
I'm not sure how well this would fit into that islands overall concept? I can't seem to find it online now (fustraighting!) and I only played through it once so I didn't manage to try all of the possabilitys.
I seem to remember something along the lines of 'I may not be so kind if you return' or something to that effect. Got me intrigued.

What do you all think?

Thanks again.

Sorry it got so long.

More questions later.

Yaztromo
Thu Feb 27 17:11:46 2014

If you remember, on Hummingbirds Island there is a jade statuette of Courga hidden a bit out of the way.
If you think so, Andy can turn it into a jade statuette of Sindla, the goddess of Luck, and we're all good.
Unless this is already linked to another planned gamebook that I don't remember (Ulysses The Master Co-ordinator can double check this for sure).

If you prefer having the relic with the final encounter of Hummingbirds Island, I have no problem as well and Andy can ret-con as it fits you best.

If you want I can as well put the relic somewhere in the Atoll I'm writing about. Just let me know.

If I got it right, you are thinking about a quest that starts on your Lucky Island, goes somewhere else (maybe after getting a hint or some kind of indication) to get the relic and then comes back to Lucky Island?

Jest
Thu Feb 27 17:18:48 2014

Hi, back again.
You're right! Typos suck!
Looking forward to your new Atol idea Yaztromo (and everybody elses islands/gamebooks for that matter).It doesn't sound like such a bad ending to me, though i guess retiring to a tropical paradise for the rest of your life instead of attempting to topple the evil Baron and his dastardly plans are not what game books are surpose to be about.

Ullysses. Sorry to hear that you are getting bogged down with other commitments. I know exactly what you mean, you gotta do what you gotta do. I can't help but think it's a blessing in disguise for me though (more time!)

Anyway, back to why I'm here again.
I've looked at the weapons stats posted on the 4th Dec.
I've had a good think and was wondering if this would be a slightly better system and explain why.

Weapon Skill Dam Specail Note.
Unarmed o 1 Bad luck if you end up like this.
Club +1 1
Knife 0 2
Staff +2 1
Sword +1 3
Spear +2 2
Axe 0 4
HvySword +1 4 Is 2 handed and you can not use a shield.
Hvy axe -1 5 Is 2 handed and you can not use a shield.
Shield +1 1 Prevents 1 attack causing any damage.
Hvy Shield 0 1 Prevents 2 attacks causing any damage.

Man that took some writing. Sorry about how it looks? I'm going to send it now incase my computer crashes!

Jest
Thu Feb 27 18:28:54 2014

Yaztromo. Sorry, I sent the last message before I'd red your last post.

The Jade stauette of Sindlar sounds almost too good to be true! It's not what I was intending but is far too good to ignore! It might mean that two (or even three make more sense now I think of it) items could have been stolen (my other idea is too good to ignore aswell). Also I don't want to take anything that is important to other peoples islands (I fear there are plans for the jade statuette allready).

My idea is that the quest for the holy Relic/Items is only one of a number of missions set to you by the Monks. Infact it wont even be in the first few, and it may not be the final one.
I don't really want it to be in anybodys final treasure/reward, as it would mean completing someone elses gamebook/island just so you could complete half of mine (finding it is only half the trouble).

I simply wanted it to be hidden, maybe buried on an island with its own treasure map to find? The idea being the thieves thought it too hot to sell on at the momment (Holy spys everywhere!)

Actually I think I've got the perfect place to put the original item now, but it's on a different island and I'm worried I wont get around to writing it any time soon.

The Jade statuette idea is awesome and I will definately used it if that is OK with all partys. I feel the monks would like to keep it once they get it back though.

I'll get back onto weapons later, I need to eat.

Thanks for the help.

Jest
Thu Feb 27 20:45:46 2014

OK back to weapons.

I know the statistics are similar to ullysses' but are slightly different and the reasons are two fold.
One - Because of the starting weapons of the characters.
Two - Weapon bonus' are based on the range and speed and lightness of the weapon, and damage is based on its weight and if its edged or blunt (very similar I know).

Going back to one.
This would mean (according to my idea) that 'Morgai' and 'Tarshawna' (the two hero fighty types) have effectively a skill of 8 (not great but OK for our purposes) with a +1 due to there swords.

'Rhuncaz' would effectively have a skill of 5 (he is a wimpy wizard type after all) with a +2 due to his staff.

This would leave 'Barabos' (our disgraced monk hero) with a Skill of 6 and a +1 due to his club.

This would mean that 'Rhuncaz' (especially) and 'Barabos' would get a pretty hard time starting on Goi-Han, but they are a magician and a priest, so it's to be expected isn't it?

Does it make sense?
Do you think it will throw the game balance out?

To make up for there short comings I was thinking I/We could maybe find items or bonuses that only they could use.

ie You find a weapon or item. Doesn't look like anything special, vaguely intresting and valuble looking. But only the Wizard can tell that it is magical and use it. The otheres will have no use for it and simply keep it (incase it comes in handy which it won't) or sell it.

The disgraced Monk gets extra favour from my islands religion simply for being a convert?

What do you think?

I hope I'm not looking too deeply into this.

Jest
Fri Feb 28 20:34:42 2014

Please tell me if you don't like my ideas.

Just my opinion : I've nothing against your ideas, but I think you would be better off concentrating more on the contents of your actual gamebook and less on fundamental game mechanics. The entertainment value lies in the storyline, not whether a sword does 2 or 3 points of damage. Any problems with balance are easy to rectify at the end. I like the fact though that you are bearing in mind the differing abilities of the characters.

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