Hi All,

I need some information regarding the village of Dree's location. To be more precise, I need to know how far it is from Mirewater and in which direction. According to the Creature of Havoc map, I know it's located just west the Forest of Spiders, sitting between two tributaries.

Robert Douglas
Fri Jun 10 00:21:53 2016

Okay, I'll put it around a three day journey by wagon.

Robert Douglas
Fri Jun 17 11:01:31 2016

Any word on what's happening with Wizard Books, any further adventures?

Gavin
Fri Jun 17 12:57:06 2016

Ian Livingstone is on my Facebook, he's threatening to write one

Robert Douglas
Fri Jun 17 13:58:19 2016

@ Gavin,
That's good news! Jonathan Green might still be on the scene; he might write one too? I've checked the Wizard Books website but they don't exactly have a forthcoming section. Anyway, it's great that we had some new titles in 20 noughties and teens. I'd love for the FF series to continue.

Phil Sadler
Fri Jun 17 14:00:08 2016

What can we do to dissuade him?

Robert Douglas
Sat Jun 18 02:21:54 2016

@ Phil,
What do you mean by 'dissuade' him? Don't you want to see a new FF title?

Phil Sadler
Sat Jun 18 07:51:34 2016

Not by Ian Livingstone I don't. I mean, look at Blood of the Zombies or Eye of the Dragon. There are so many better gamebook designers out there (Jonathon green, Jim Bambra and Steven Hand and so on).

Yaztromo
Sat Jun 18 16:38:25 2016

Ian Livingstone wrote also Deathtrap Dungeon: you can't pick the worse production of an author to represent him against the best of another. Not all gamebooks from the other authors you mention are brilliant as well: being human beings they have hoghs and lows.

However I agree that the most recent gamebook production by Ian Livingstone is definitely worse than the most recent gamebook production by Jon Green or Dave Morris. No doubt.

Phil Sadler
Sat Jun 18 16:47:19 2016

What about the very old Crypt of the Sorcerer? Which is probably the only FF book which is almost literally impossible to complete.

Yaztromo
Sat Jun 18 23:58:08 2016

Creature of Havoc is actually literally impossible to complete as paragraph 213 is: "You reach a dead end", but should have been: "You find yourself at a dead end".

Robert Douglas
Sun Jun 19 00:39:03 2016

Everybody has their favourites, every author has good and bad days as regards their gamebook. As regards Ian Livingstone, certainly not all his gamebooks are truly 'in-depth'. Deathtrap Dungeon was a true classic, but by around book 20 (Puffin) fans wanted to explore outside, fantastic cultures, bizarre characters - besides new rules to the system. While Crypt of the Sorcerer is surely one of the most ridiculously difficult, it does at least provide a good story with some memorable characters. So too did Legend of Zagor (the first FF to give a choice of player character with stats). But others, such as Freeway Fighter and City of Thieves, in comparison seemed rushed with scant descriptions. Good concepts, but not always exploited to full potential. I think it's great that Ian Livingstone authored 'Blood of the Zombies', personally I really enjoyed this adventure!

Yaztromo, you mentioned Creature of Havoc. This was actually my very first FF gamebook purchased in 1987. However, although much more in-depth and superbly written, Steve Jackson did the same thing as Luke Sharp: too many deaths from a random choice! To be honest, I find this unfair unless the player is given some hint or clue prior to such a choice. SPOILER! I nearly did the same thing in Below Zero Point, so I inserted some colleague's message within the terrorist officer's comfax warning of a perilous drop beyond a particular door! It's possible for a player to miss such info, but it's also possible to discover.

Ian Livingstone's style is to sprinkle a plethora of essential items desperately waiting to be discovered in order to succeed. All part of a challenge, but little wonder many fans used to do the 'five-finger bookmark'. But is that the sign of a cheat? Or perhaps people growing up and being cautious of every decision they make, if you peer into the future based on that choice? Or that life can grant opportunities and curve balls purely at random, regardless of personal choice? Perhaps gamebooks represent life at some level? Fair and unfair. Ian Livingstone recently gave a lecture based on 'why do people play games'? I was instantly reminded of that discussion in episode 1 of The One Game!

A.E. Johnston
Sun Jun 19 03:52:26 2016

Just saw the mention of "Freeway Fighter" in the previous comment- I originally purchased and played it as I was a big fan of the Mad Max series, and this obviously took more than a few ideas from the films. Although fun with some interesting ideas, and a nice departure from the norm, I recall some of the pictures being horrendously dull (one was literally the side of a barn, and about as interesting to look at) which definitely was a sign of it being rushed, as Robert pointed out.

Some other gamebooks just entered "horrendously difficult" territory, so that when you realized how to beat them they were no longer that enjoyable ("Trial of Champions" comes to mind).

Phil Sadler
Sun Jun 19 11:30:37 2016

I Know about that Creature of Havoc mistake and I had that in my addition. Which is probably why I've never ranked that book as a favourite. Surely it was fixed in a later addition?

Anyway, the probability of someone realising and rectifying the error is quite high. The probability of someone, even the very best with the very best run, of completing COS is non-existent.

Phil Sadler
Sun Jun 19 11:32:29 2016

"So too did Legend of Zagor"

IL did not write that book. It was written by Carl Sergeant and that explains why it was so different and not linear, over-difficult crap.

Gavin
Sun Jun 19 13:01:17 2016

Some say the Creature of Havoc solution (I figured it out properly myself as a child) is a triumph of meta fiction, the creature developing a soul / remembering his intuition, or teaching kids to think outside the box.

Robert Douglas
Sun Jun 19 13:27:47 2016

Hi Phil,
I've just been on Titannica, checked what you said, and you're absolutely right. I had no idea Keith Martin wrote 'Legend of Zagor'. But I'm really confused as to why it was credited to Ian Livingstone. Weird. I know that they worked together on the Zagor Chronicles, but even so...

Robert Douglas
Sun Jun 19 13:29:20 2016

BTW, Keith Martin and Carl Sargent are the same person, pseudonyms eh? Damn confusing.

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