Ugh killed by Darm's lightning bolt. Man that's a long way to go to not finish. What could I have done different. Was there something that gave me a better attack strength than minus 2? sheesh! lol
oliwier Thu Nov 4 14:23:07 2021
not bad
bad Mon Nov 15 11:30:30 2021
bad, i died
Olive Fri Nov 19 12:27:33 2021
very nice
veneta Fri Nov 19 12:29:05 2021
the story was nice and interesting
ChewbakaPT Mon Feb 21 10:18:50 2022
Being brave, in a world of bandit, is foolish and unwise. The premises of The Diamond Key are those of bravery, yet I failed the task. Wasn't able to defeat the foe. I will surely come back for another attempt.
First Time Reader Tue Mar 8 12:19:45 2022
Long sword is a trap :(
Karol SZwec Tue Nov 8 10:45:52 2022
It is good
Naomi Dimbleby Fri Nov 25 11:38:23 2022
Good game fun and a lot of dicisons but make the text inbetween the decision make the text shorter
odette Wed Nov 30 09:18:58 2022
very fun
Rio Aryo W R Mon Mar 13 18:51:06 2023
ah, after trying and getting killed dozens of times, I finally managed to finish this story. great, I'm very satisfied!
bluejuice915 Fri May 26 15:53:21 2023
Been working my way through this site again & apparently this was on my incomplete list. Seemingly like other people, I only got to 800 instead of 1000. Still feel pretty good about the path I took to get there (no spoilers). Love the combat system & dedication to world building. Also greatly appreciate the size (will be making multiple maps for the various stages of the book. Hope to be able to get a proper completion & maybe attempt the bonus challenges. Nothing's perfect though. 99/100
Liam Wed Aug 2 10:35:08 2023
This should be a movie, Please make another one!!
YARD Thu Dec 28 20:46:21 2023
Well....
Longtime observers here probably noticed how I set out to go through everything on here in the middle of the year, and nearly managed it too. It was at another one of Ulysses' works, Contractual Obligation, where I found I also had limits, and had to take a break three months earlier. I knew full well that The Diamond Key was the absolute largest work here, and I initially intended to save it for last, but the perspective of restarting CO was so unappealing, I had to change my plans.
I had high hopes, mainly due to the excellent The Ravages of Fate. In hindsight, I suppose I should have guessed that as the latter was one of Ulysses' later works, and this one of the earliest, there would be a substantial gulf - or indeed, that the The Ravages of Fate worked so well because it was so tightly wound and condensed. Then again, I also had the counterexample in front of me, as Gavin Mitchell's Outsider! is both larger than his (much) later works, and very clearly superior to them.
In all, I had hopes. Unfortunately, I can't say they were fulfilled. At one point, I would outright say I hated the whole thing, but now that I finally see this victory screen, I just feel the strange mix of contentment, exhaustion and disappointment.
Funnily enough, by typical gamebook standards I "won" on third try, getting to ref 800 then, and getting very close on the first try, where the character fell in the final battle. Only then did it take dozens more attempts to get here - which should say a lot about the difficulty curve, or the lack thereof.
If I have to start discussing the shortcomings of this, it might as well be here. I have seen comments from Ulysses Ai where he acknowledged that too much of the material is hidden away, but that's a bit of understatement. Some of the absolute best writing here can only be seen with a truly incredible confluence of events.
SPOILER
Like "going to hell the second time", which can end up completely impossible if you do the Groat fight, which seems like the thing you SHOULD be doing narratively, and get too many guards killed randomly, which then leads you past the town where you can get the rat. Not to mentuon you have to first replay enough to know the right person to talk to, then guess the right chemical combination, THEN fight the demon and lose (itself not very likely, as a character strong enough to find the demon in the first place is likely to be strong enough to avoid a hit) THEN pass that skill check.
END SPOILER
Or ref 495 (plus the refs immediately before and after) which is absolutely beautiful and makes this stand out so much from a typical gamebook - and which also requires you to
SPOILER
Guess that knocking out the priestess would be a GOOD thing to do, even though everything you taught by both Kianmay and the Darken Wood is about staying away from unnecessary violence AND because talking to her normally clearly shows her to be good and discourage violence against her - AND then FAIL a luck check - a luck check which is technically difficult, sure, but a luck value of ~18 is also easy to get to by that point, even reasonable to shoot for if you aim to get the Firesword. If you first pass the luck check, guessing that you'll see something far more interesting if you fail is really difficult.
END SPOILER
This wouldn't be that much of a problem, if it weren't for the incredible weakness of the many earlier events you have to go through. Most notably, EVERYTHING to do with the Griffon forces is narrative ballast. They are never interesting, inexplicably anonymous (it makes no sense why the protagonist who had just come from the south had never heard of that southern lord before), and their function could have been fulfilled by more Arantator forces with little loss to the narrative. Worst of all, the author wrote in two ways to deal with them, yet somehow both are INCREDIBLY stupid. I wish ref 495 replaced one of them - as is, the reaction of soldiers there makes no sense, and the other one is just laughable both in the security arrangements and the lack of desire to do anything after coming all that way already.
YARD Thu Dec 28 22:04:38 2023
Sadly, too many other mandatory or near-mandatory events early on also suffer from giant lapses of logic - often combined with that surprising bane of too many gamebooks here, auto-choices. In contradiction to pretty much all interactive storytelling advice, The Diamond Key has a surprising dearth of actual interaction (whether through choices or checks) on its paths (as opposed to choosing paths) for much of the gamebook, and is almost completely void of consequences, then presents a massive glut of both at what amounts to the very end.
The one constant throughout the gamebook, though, is the truly broken gameplay, in the sense of combat and risk-vs-reward ratio. As promising as the system is (and I certainly like that thanks to it, human enemies have roughly the same stamina as you, rather than the frankly artificial disparities of ~10 points between the player character and a typical human(oid) combatant nearly everywhere else), the actual fighting is virtually never interesting or tense in the way so many other gamebooks here have managed it. A large reason why is being able to get some of the most helpful items in the game literally for free at the start thanks to highly generous check-free auto-choice refs, then encounter optional encounters upon optional encounters that all have some difficulty of discovery or of completion, yet whose awards are duplicative fully (I read here with surprise that the author considers being able to get three of the most powerful weapons at the same time a point of pride, rather than the VERY opposite) or partially (bonuses upon bonuses for an already broken character, or which merely present you with yet another way to "win" yet STILL get the exact same awful ending you would have already seen many times by then thanks to much easier ways of getting to it.
The effective default ending, 800, is really one of the absolute worst-written endings I have seen on here. It's less-dumb than the bad ending of A Saint Beckons, and has some stiff competition from Riders of the Storm or Wrong Way Go Back, but it's not a good place to be in. The way it's written, with that mirror of the Background paragraphs (a narrative device far less clever than many think it is) would have made sense for an ending where you abandon the whole thing once it gets hot and better yet, take the Key for yourself once literally nobody can stop you. However, that is something you are NOT allowed to do at that point (in spite of all those refs, and of being able to do/attempt a whole lot of fairly evil/selfish things both before and after) and after what you ACTUALLY achieve, with the powers you would have by then, that ending is completely nonsensical. At times, it outright breaks continuity, but sadly, it's far from the only thing to do so.
An incomplete list of continuity-breaking and rail-roading.
SPOILER
Why are we not allowed to use rope and grappling hook to climb the wall at 117 and 251?
It's weird that literally everything is automatic at 251.
Auto-fight with the orc beast at 351 is also hardly the best experience.
322 being such a long and non-interactive paragraph also isn’t that satisfying. We are often given fairly obvious choices to be suspicious or not (i.e. with the oxen), but here, he can handle everything automatically, from conversing with the barman to going over the gate.
WHY can’t we use the lockpicks at 322, and instead have to rely on ludicrously blunt plot armour?
123 feels so weird after clearing out the Groat’s band, and also perhaps the whole vow to deal with the orc excavators.
Ref 182 is possibly the worst of auto-choices.
How does the protagonist’s and Kianmay’s surprise at the orcs’ written language makes any sense after they had already seen the tax collector write?
Interaction with Zarim staying unchanged even if you interacted with the other High Priest before is predictably disappointing.
You can talk to the merchant guards at 396 even if you already have done that before.
We can just get bitten and turned into a werewolf, and not receive any reaction from Kianmay about it at all? Can’t ask if her powers would work at that either, not to mention attempt the Key?
AND BECOMING A WEREWOLF DOES NOT EVEN ALTER ENDING 800?
727 is NOT altered if you had already seen Kianmay’s wings?
Why is it that even after going through the trial for becoming Champion of Light and doing everything right, we STILL cannot do anything to interrogate Laremidan, and our only options are to wait to kill him openly or stab him in the back?
Same for the sorcerer pretending to be High Priest. It's incredible that the option to incapacitate him effectively REQUIRES you to attack the priestess unprovoked, and even though he is literally unable to cause you harm if you have the Armband (the very armband which REQUIRES compassion to get), you always kill him automatically otherwise?
END SPOILER
YARD Thu Dec 28 22:18:32 2023
Continued...
SPOILER
For that matter, how can you even kill the High Priest once he does take the Key?
And if the Key can revive the recently dead...wouldn't this have allowed Kianmay to revive so many casualties on your way? From fallen guards to at least some of the opponents? The main argument is that the revived ones would often just want it for themselves, but it's rather undercut by the way she wants to deal with Raul. (For that matter, what stops her from reviving evil people then sending them to sleep?)
The Wolf is so laughably OP, he has to be one of the few characters capable of confronting Outsider!'s Aria at the peak of his powers. Thing is, all the spiel for how good and honourable he is in spite of being a werewolf rings rather hollow after the story about him always decimating his OWN soldiers - which you NEVER get to confront him on.
Same for the King of Darken Wood - why can't we ask him to explain how all his philosophy gels with CONDEMNING AN ENTIRE TOWN TO DEATH BY PLAGUE, not to mention two interlopers who appeared to have the best of intentions, all for the sins of one? Not to mention that it was the wood which came to that town, not the other way around.
At the same time, our protagonist finds a talking crow who claims to be the king of a wood THAT JUST WIPED OUT AN ENTIRE TOWN - and he "ignores the claim of royalty" and has no sense to be polite, even obsequious, to someone who obviously warrants that?
Worse, someone described as a talented liar in the first ref cannot lie about being a dragon worshipper to the obviously dangerous priestess, and predictably gets blasted for it? Why are we not allowed to leave after we got the notes from the orc tome but before we have investigated the dig?
Being "unable to help them" at 426 when we literally have the ring of keys is amazing.
The complete irrelevance of seeing Kianmay's secret early on is also amazing, in the worst way.
Predictably, the King of Darken Wood does not care that we have already killed a goblin at 43.
Also predictably, 770 is NOT altered if you had already read the sorcerer’s letter about the queen.
The dialogue about the golden apple with the demon unchanging if you DO know what it is is a further continuity issue.
Interesting that we have the option to show necromancer’s wand to Kianmay, but not the zombie rat.
Or that the Wolf’s guards do not care about the zombie rat.
Or that we are afraid of the amulet, but not the hell axe.
Why can't we argue that Kianmay seen with Darm must be an illusion when we already know of his powers?
It’s actually EASIER to kill Darm with a normal dagger than a crystal one if you have the armband?!
I have no idea whether 801 bypassing your armband was cool or awful.
The description of Gilmore’s tent is good, but 182 being completely non-interactive DETRACTS A LOT from the experience. I do NOT want to read about my character covering a lot of territory on his own and then suddenly burning stuff and indirectly causing others' death in a single paragraph - I want to control all of that.
It’s so weird that everything at 304 is non-interactive as well. No checks for all the complicated actions you have to do - again, considering how great the rewards are.
Options at 1052 seem to make absolutely no sense considering how much holy power you would have already seen by then?
WHY can’t we loot any metal armour or proper swords from the dead soldiers at 67?! Indeed, why do we get a choice to try and steal a sword at 234, but can’t just loot one earlier?
We also do not get to loot a crossbow at 11? (Another ref devoid of checks for complex actions.)
Buying an extra blanket does not help to make our rest at 84 or at 178 any more comfortable?
We can knock out the old priestess to get the key from her, but not the sleeping paladin at 466, who is apparently not even a real paladin?
END SPOILER
Gameplay stuff/bugs.
SPOILER
Failing to sneak into Gilmore the Groat’s tent suddenly takes you all the way to ref 360.
Background - A fair wage for three week's work. + as the door opens, letting on a gust of cool air (in?)
49 – no punctuation after the two options.
16 but can often by blocked by avalanches + his new-born state (?)
18 But only silence and the small of strong chemicals comes from the kennels.
20 a shaved headed man + a black robe that ends at his knee an (and?) enamelled breastplate worn over the top. + Tooled brown leather riding boots covering him from knee to tow.
21 and open you lantern long enough to extinguish it.
51
"Is he dead?" she asks.
"No," you reply. She looks disappointed, and glares at the corpse with hatred - really funny, and there should probably be another word here.
69 Apprehensively, you wait as (she?) begins to write on a sheet of parchment. + What did you say? (write?)
84 You make some jokes with the others travellers
87 Almost all of the glowing crystals are gone, gouge marks next to the holes indicated (indicating?) that they (have?) all been prised out.
+ when you suddenly here a voice and freeze.
+ The are two doorways
112 The paladin all dismount and forming a line move towards the together + using the starlight and the cover afforded by the scrubby by the roadside (?)
178 As your oxen-draw wagon (oxen-drawn?) + a few round stone-huts siting directly by the road-side. (?) + before you begin to see the signs of stone begin cleared away by pick and chisel. (?) + They give you a guide as you how long you have travelled,(?)
225 and you are suddenly gasped by some invisible force
234 She is silent in though for many moments,
247 A strange-looking women pulls the door open
310 pouring down through the crystal dome "Strange one, this vampire.
321 and his thick braided bread reaches his waist.
333 There be many avalanches recently. Hope you make (it?) through.
338 and leave him in a ticket of trees (thicket?)
368 a high vaulted ceiling above hang at intervals with chandeliers. + It is lit by a great coal bonfires
391 may fight and only kill if he choses to.
395 Will a man in the desert who comes up a golden goblet filled with water, + Take you golden cup and go!
+ Where did you come from, man? is weirdly anachronistic.
396 Then they will let you past (pass?) without delay.
408 a jet of of noxious gas is expelled.
435 After resting for a few moments, you start pulling on the rope, you haul your belongings through the pipe
458 Do you only believe in justice and order is it is easily achieved?"
459 to one of the other potential entrances :
495 just it case that makes a difference + her eyes half open + The guardsman all seem to accept this, but are far from happy.
500 The lighted door
502 also pass the doors to more official's offices
523 I can't do that," you reply.Do you want to
555 But its not good
625 painted in life like colours.
718 It is suitable for settling aflame burnables
736 as the powerful venom does it work.
740 then the locks on the click
807 the tree- thick body + Each one holds a pole- sword + She wears a sort green silken coat
833 You feel light a weight has been lifted from the room and your own shoulders.
846 When you are finished, two serpent woman
888 You listen at the doors, but heae nothing
905 Their snake parts are black scaled
931
trying to reunite with it at your new location You feel some resistance
1014
Anyone important own it? (owns?)
1026
of great value and beauty.However,
1087 small and made of wood more often that stone (than?) + Only the dark slate rooves are uniform. + Well cared for lawns + a life-sized statue of a woman in a flowing robe. He hands are empty + the shine of Aringarator the Dragon-Slayer.You are momentarily distracted + Perhaps you should prey for a blessing.
