quote from Ulysses:
> I think few people want to do a page of mathematics to see if they win a fight or not.

Bizarrely, a lot of role-players seem to love doing exactly that :)

Question
Sat Jun 16 12:57:29 2007

46 paragraphs finished :-)

Age of Fable:
I've checked your link. As far as I can tell there's only four ideas there. Do you plan in adding more in the near future? That would be good! ;-)

I think your way of doing things is actually a really good idea. Too bad I had already started when I read your suggestion! Oh well. Next time definitely...

More ideas would be most welcomed.

Age of Fable
Sat Jun 16 16:00:08 2007

> I've checked your link. As far as I can tell there's only four ideas there. Do you plan in adding more in the near future? That would be good! ;-)

It picks a few plot elements at a time, from a much larger list.

At the top of the screen there's a bit that says "to get a new list, click here" - 'click here' is a link that re-loads the page, with new ideas.

Gaetano
Sun Jun 17 05:31:17 2007

The most important thing about writing an adventure is to have fun. You are doing it on on your own free time, relatively few people will read it, and you won't make any money off of it. So have fun. I think many people start off too ambitiously, plannning a 600 paragraph epic, and then, as was mentioned, lose steam halfway through.

So I say, have fun with it, don't be afraid to be original and try something different, and also be open to all types of comments (positive and negative). Realize that everyone has their preferences, and if someone does not like an aspect of your work, try and really understand what their criticism is; perhaps it will help you with future endeavors.

Most of us are "little fish", meaning that we won't be published, and so it is very gratifying to have your work up on a site like this and to get numerous comments from readers.

Question
Sun Jun 17 07:14:18 2007

Thank you Gaetano. I am having a good time writing it and trying to learn as many new words as I can in the process.

80 references and counting...

I would like to propose my combat mechanic here so that I can modify it if it somehow turns out to be unfeasible before the "final release"

Combat
Combat has also been modified to the following rules:

The difference between you and your opponent’s attack power determines the amount of STAMINA lost.

Look at the following chart to figure out how to deal damage:

Attack power difference
1-2 3-4 4-5 6-7 8-9 10+
Damage dealt
(STAMINA LOSS) 1 2 3 4 5 INSTANT KILL

Example:
You are fighting a DRUNK GOBLIN.
YOU
SKILL: 9 STAMINA: 18 LUCK: 10

DRUNK GOBLIN
SKILL: 7 STAMINA: 10 LUCK: 7
#1
You both roll two die and add your skill to determine your Attack Strength.
#2
You roll 8 and add your skill (9) for total of: 8+9=17
DRUNK GOBLIN rolls 6 and adds his SKILL (7): 6+7=13
#3:
You win this round by 4 points! (17-13) You inflict 2 STAMINA.

SECOND ROUND:

YOU
SKILL: 9 STAMINA: 18 LUCK: 10

DRUNK GOBLIN
SKILL: 7 STAMINA: 8 LUCK: 7
#1:
You roll 10
DG rolls 4
#2:
Attack Strength: 10+9=19
A.S.: 7+4=11
#3:
You once again win this round by 8 points! You inflict 5 STAMINA wound!

ROUND 3:
#1:
Your roll: 11
DG roll: 3
#2:
Your AS: 20
DG AS: 10
#3:
You also win this round by 10 points! You instantly kill the DRUNK GOBLIN.

Everything is kind of wonky as I copied form word but it should still give an ideas.

Do comment and critic as much as possible. I'll then decide whatever modifications I would like to apply.

Question
Sun Jun 17 07:18:18 2007

Oh yeah, before I forget,

SPOILER

END SPOILER

I think it's worth a shot.

Gaetano, did you draw a map of your references or did you fix everything on the go, making up the stories as you go along?

Question
Sun Jun 17 07:21:36 2007

Oh yeah, before I forget,

SPOILER

END SPOILER

I think it's worth a shot.

Gaetano, did you draw a map of your references or did you fix everything on the go, making up the stories as you go along?

Phil Sadler
Sun Jun 17 07:56:59 2007

Your combat system seems interesting but I still think it could be simplified and made better for it. How about this:

You simply compare the Attack Strengths of you and your opponent and then deduct the difference from the loser's stamina? In this way you would be able to inflict some truly terrible wounds on weak foes and kill them in a couple of hits. Yet stronger foes would put up a real fight.

QUESTION
Sun Jun 17 11:11:21 2007

Hello Phil.

Thank you for your comment.

I do think your idea is much more simple and would probably be easier to implement for Andy.

The thing is I've also come up with a damage chart for enemies.

Every enemy in the game can either be classified as:

PUNY
WEAK
AVERAGE
STRONG
MIGHTY
DEADLY

For example:

DRUNK GOBLIN (AVERAGE)
SKILL: 7 END: 12

Here's the following charts for each category:
PUNY

Attack power difference
1-4 5-6 7+
Damage dealt
(STAMINA LOSS) 1 2 3

WEAK

Attack power difference
1-3 4-5 6-7 8+
Damage dealt
(STAMINA LOSS) 1 2 3 4

AVERAGE

Attack power difference
1-2 3-4 5-6 7-8 9+
Damage dealt
(STAMINA LOSS) 1 2 3 4 5

STRONG

Attack power difference
1-2 3-4 5-6 7-8 9+
Damage dealt
(STAMINA LOSS) 2 3 4 5 6

MIGHTY

Attack power difference
1 2-3 4-5 6-7 8-9 10+
Damage dealt
(STAMINA LOSS) 2 3 4 5 6 7

DEADLY

Attack power difference
1 2-3 5-6 7-8 9 10+
Damage dealt
(STAMINA LOSS) 3 4 5 6 7 INSTANT KILL

This, in my opinion would lead to some really interesting battles.

For instance a Giant might have a very low SKILL, say 6 but still be MIGHTY. This would mean that it would be easy to avoid his blows but whenever he hits, it would cause loads of damage.

The same could be true for smaller more nimble creatures with HIGH SKILL but low damage. I think it would reflect each creature in a more realistic way.

I did think about what you said but the problem with what is should the player be involved in a fight and he unfortunately rolls a really low score, he could a huge amount of STAMINA.

I find that the tables are less brutal in a way. A good score increases damage but not by too much.

I could boost both the player and the creatures STAMINA to fix this but to me there's something odd about a GOBLIN having 20 STAMINA, it's just not very FFesque.

I don't think it would be too hard for Andy to program as ALL creatures fit into one of the six categories.

Thank you for your input. I've certainly thought about it after reading it. It depends a lot on Andy as well. I might very well take you on this advice in the long run.

Anyone with other suggestion about the battle mechanics, I would appreciate further input. For example if you think that the enemies damage chart should be tweaked.

Phil Sadler
Sun Jun 17 15:54:38 2007

I thought about adding damage tables to my own books but never quite got around to doing so. What I had in mind was something along the lines of this: you roll your attack strengths and then compare the dice rolled to the damage table of the victor, like so...

Pixie ( a very weak creature)
2: misses you - gain 1 luck
3-5: scratches you - 1 damage
6-7: wounds you - 2 damage
8-11: deeply wounds you - 3 damage
12: casts spell at you - lose 1 luck

Demon (very strong)
2: grazes you - 1 damage
3-5: wounds you - 2 damage
6-9: deeply wounds you - 3 damage
10-11: damages your shield/armour - lose 1 skill
12: disarms you - lose 3 skill for rest of fight

As you can see there is quite a bit you can do with the relatively limited number of stats that is skill/stamina/luck.

Question
Mon Jun 18 02:17:14 2007

Hello again Phil,

The problem I see with your suggestion is the complexity of it.

I think it would be difficult for Andy to program some specifics for each creature in my book.

I like the idea of each creature having some special ability however.

I was always frustrated to encounter a LIZARD MAN with the exact same stats has a ZOMBIE. This made encounters bland and uninteresting.

I was thinking of implementing special charts but only for certain special enemies. Losing SKILL and LUCK would then be included in those charts.

Basically, I like your idea and will definitely implement it but only for certain special characters.

It all depends on Andy as well. As he will be programming the whole thing, his decision will have a huge impact on the format.

This being said, I hope he can manage as everything I've written so far is based on those rules.

Q.

Question
Mon Jun 18 02:21:49 2007

Actually the more I think about your idea the more I'm liking it.

Age of Fable
Mon Jun 18 10:01:29 2007

re combat blandness:

I like the idea of damage tables, with more varied results than just damage eg a Pixie might cast a spell that transports you to a different location, or make itself disappear, or a Giant might capture you.

Age of Fable
Mon Jun 18 10:03:29 2007

> I'm thinking about fixing other flaws of the old system, namely how a huge difference in SKILL score either makes the game too difficult or too easy. Any suggestions?

Midnight Deep has a system where you have a certain amount of points, and spend points to buy Skill, Stamina and Luck (at the rate of 2 points = 1 Skill, 2 Stamina, or 1 Luck). I think it's a good idea, but the costs aren't balanced; I'd put something like 1 Skill = 4 Stamina or 4 Luck.

You could also combine equipment and gold with this system, giving them a point cost as well, so you could have a weaker character with more equipment and/or gold.

Question
Mon Jun 18 11:18:31 2007

Age of Fable:

That could work. Only SKILL is still a stat much more important than STAMINA and LUCK combined. Which means that players could still boost their SKILL where encounters become meaningless.

I think it would be possible to survive an adventure with really low STAMINA score as long as the SKILL is high.

Phil Sadler
Mon Jun 18 12:07:09 2007

Here's the damage table I used for the boss in Riders of the Storm:

Night Demon

2 It casts a Health Drain spell: deduct an initial STAMINA point
3 It trips you with its tail: deduct 1 STAMINA point
4 It bites you: deduct 2 STAMINA points
5 It smashes you into a tree: deduct 3 STAMINA points
6 It misses you: gain 1 LUCK point and you may take a potion!
7 It misses you: gain 1 LUCK point and you may take a potion!
8 It casts a Rejuvenate spell: it regains 3 STAMINA points
9 It casts a Fireball spell: deduct a die of STAMINA
10 It casts a Misfortune spell: deduct a LUCK point
11 It casts a Curse spell: deduct an initial LUCK point
12 It casts a Weakness spell: deduct a SKILL point

Al Sander
Tue Jun 19 01:06:15 2007

Re: advice in regards to creating a gamebook

Always back up your work and try to write something that you would be happy to play. That way, even if no one else likes it, your gamebook still has one fan.

Otherwise - I like to plan out the gamebook before I start with a flow chart tracking the progress of encounters. I also find that writing the introduction, then writing the end 10-20 paragraphs works really well for me.

Re: damage tables

I like them. I tend to prefer simpler more ad-hoc modifiers (such as, the giant, if it successfully strikes you, will do 4 STAMINA damage instead of the usual 2 owing to its enormous strength) but damage tables could be really interesting if done well.

Question
Tue Jun 19 02:25:51 2007

I know my encounters won't be the typical (SKILL, STAMINA) and that's it and I do want each encounter to have something special to them.

For instance, there's some SEWER RATS in my adventure. I'm thinking about creating a chart where they can transmit the plague. As it's a swarm of rats, I'm thinking that their stats could vary has more RATS join in and others run away.

Andy, could it be done, the charts?

Gaetano
Tue Jun 19 04:03:28 2007

Re: Adventure Design
I had a general idea of the adventure as a whole, but for the most part I made things up as I was writing. Or, in many cases, I had an ongoing "idea" list for encounters and situations (things tend to pop into your head at work, at lunch, etc) that I would refer to and infuse into my adventure.

I'm not one to use flow charts, but that's probably not very smart, because it makes keeping track of all the pathways in a 400 section adventure pretty difficult.

Re: Combat Design
I like your idea of having a table. As has been mentioned, the standard "1 hit = lose 2 Stamina" gets old really fast. Phil's idea of simply taking the difference in attack strength seems to be overkill, IMO, because then things would be really short and deadly. But I do like Phil's second suggestion of an outcome based attack table. Maybe include both? An outcome based table would seem to make more sense for a supernatural enemy. Personally, I like adventures with less fights (or at least less unavoidable fights).

Question
Tue Jun 19 04:25:07 2007

Thank you for your reply, Gaetano.

About the chart, something just struck me.

The way I see it, I think a difference in attack strength should determine what actually happens.

A big difference in both opponents attack strength would mean that the victor has managed to land a particularly effective blow.

Here's what I think:

I would keep the 6 categories I've mentioned before for more common enemies.

But would also make up original charts for unique enemies.

Different weapons would provide different charts for the player. I've already thought of a morning star which can end up damaging you as it's hard to handle.

For instance:

Let's say your opponent is a vampire.

If your opponent wins by a difference of:
1: grazes you (lose one STAMINA)
2-3: Causes a medium wound (lose two STAMINA)
4-5: Bites you (lose 2 STAMINA and add 2 STAMINA to VAMPIRE).

etc...

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