Douglas, whether the comment was constructive or negative you learn from it. Why wasn't the gamebook liked? Maybe there's room for improvement next time. I always seem to get terrible reviews on stuff I've worked very hard on but I try to improve myself and try to understand what it is that made the person who read my gamebook dislike it so much? Of course, now I could really give a rat's ass about it all but I guess getting negative remarks on your work can strike a harsh cord.
meschlum Thu Mar 10 00:41:06 2016
Noticed a minor bug - towards the beginning, when attacked by zombies and skeletons, if the Fear check is failed (meaning the zombies cannot be shot), the opponents are two pairs of (weak) Zombies (sections 192 and 440), rather than Zombies then (stronger) Skeletons (sections 476 and 473) if you pass the check and do not shoot.
So it could be a situation where failing a Fear check is better?
friedrich berg Fri May 13 13:34:27 2016
It was pretty cool
Robert Douglas Fri May 13 23:35:38 2016
Thanks Friedrich. Sorry you got killed - just out of interest where did it happen?
Stinger Thu Jul 6 00:17:10 2017
Man I've played through three times now and still I find a way to die. lol Thanks so much for this really interesting, and scary little gamebook! :) The only thing I never understood was why I had to keep doing skill checks once I found the sacred axe, I forget now what its called. But I had to test my skill about three times over, and I never was clear on why? To may haps see if I were worthy? Thanks for this book, and this good group of friends we travel and fight here with, I really like the way they work together. My last lesson learned, never test your luck in a darkend passageway. :P
Stinger Fri Jul 7 06:29:13 2017
This time I started with SK 12 ST 24 LK 11 and fear 12. Glad I went with the 24 stamina, I needed nearly every bit of it! :) Not sure why I was unable to use the provisions in my previous game, possibly it had something to do with my IPhone? No clue, But I'll be playing on my desktop from now on.
finally, the nightmare is over - the Curse of Drumer has ended! Thanks again RD for another fun but on edge run through TCOD. Just glad I figured out the answer to the combonation door with the orb, methinks that helped a lot! Next play through I'll have to try the alternate weapon and choices. Thanks again! :D
Stinger Sun Jul 9 09:10:26 2017
Somehow I failed the tests, and was killed by the ice demon. ⚰️
Babap Tue Jul 25 14:34:13 2017
Took me long enough to find the good ending.
Surprisingly the first puzzle actually cause me a lot of time, for those who got stuck the answer is:
SPOILER
6 6 6 as is the number for the devil
END SPOILER
Feels a bit sad that the ending results in the protagonist moving away from his/her home, as if he/she can't be the same again. Understandable, but still make the victory rang a little hollow to me.
RogueOne Tue Oct 24 01:12:44 2017
Done!
SPOILER
Fighting all four Champion Fire Demons at once was a bit rough. Perhaps the Hreinleika's effects aren't properly calculated: only 2 stamina was coming off for each hit, and their skill stayed the same.
END SPOILER
Robert Douglas Wed Nov 1 03:50:38 2017
RogueOne, Well done! However,
SPOILER
there is a secret behind the Hreinleika axe that can be learned from a certain source. If you want to know where, let me know and I'll put the answer in the spoiler box. Otherwise the divine axe merely wounds them normally whereas ordinary weapons are ineffectual!
END SPOILER
Robert Douglas Wed Nov 1 04:12:59 2017
A late reply to Babap's post during July: it wasn't actually the protagonist's home, the player's character was newly arrived to the area on 'business' with Scott and Jimmy (who were associates both local to the area). Terry turned out to be the brother of
SPOILER
Nel, a district nurse as described in 'House of Hell' entry 209 (with illustration). I'm certain I got her name from FF archives although perhaps it's made-up, I can't remember now.
END SPOILER
It's possible he lived either locally or from some distance away yet endeavoured to find his missing sister, but by now resolved to avenge her. Whatever the case, he joined forces with Richard Ettingley, an aristocrat from a wealthy estate that has a long history of rivalry with the Drumers. With the player's quest concluded (entry 400), and haunted by the loss of his friend Scott, and all the horrors, he decides to leave the area for good.
Xena Mon Nov 6 11:47:23 2017
Fun
Babap Fri Jan 12 21:32:07 2018
Been a while, but playing it again. This book is always that awesome to me.
Anonymous Mon Apr 9 16:54:40 2018
Why is there ALWAYS bats in Fighting Fantasy adventures? They kill me every time, and i hate it! Good story, though.
Robert Douglas Tue Apr 10 15:44:32 2018
I feel a bit guilty about including bats within a villainous capacity; they're often misunderstood creatures. However, I don't think there are many people would have them as a pet, or keep them as they do pigeons or chickens. And they are creatures of the night so it's more convenient to categorise them as familiars for witches and vampires. On the other hand, bats are wildlife protected by the RSPCA and other animal trusts. Sorry you got killed, glad you enjoyed it :)
meschlum Sat Aug 11 03:00:53 2018
When using Dibir Malacht with Honour, Fear rolls were still required (and fortunately passed) when seeking the Gold Cross. The automatic successes may not be working?
I think that they are, but the way that I've implemented it may be confusing. What happens is that you don't even see the two automatic successes that Dibir Mallacht gives you, you are just sent straight to the 'successful' paragraph. What I suspect you're seeing are the third and subsequent rolls, and you have already benefited from the Honour power.
Shadow Sat Jan 19 14:15:09 2019
I share everyone's sentiments about the stat rolls - in particular there don't seem to be enough ways to restore luck so, even if you start with a luck of 12, at some point you're rolling against a score of 5 or 6. Also,
SPOILER
I believe your trip into Maddesby's house is just a series of 6 tests; including 4 skill, 1 stamina and 1 luck
END SPOILER
.
However I know this is something that has been mentioned a lot previously, and having attempted to write my own 'FF-style' stories in the past, I know how hard it can be. So I would like to praise the author for both his dedication and the amazing results that emerged. House of Hell was the first ever FF book I read, and as a 9-year old the picture of the goat-headed demon accompanying passage 222 (I think) was traumatizing, but helped get me really into the genre. So to have an adventure so closely linked to that great FF classic is truly satisfying, and immensely enjoyable to revisit the location after it was burnt down.
Aside from its continuity with Jackson's creation, the story itself is brilliantly well-written, with great character development and a certain flair that makes you want to read on, and therefore makes dying even more frustrating. The author should be very proud of his work, and whilst there are obviously a few minor issues, the story as a whole is fully engaging and should not bother a true FF fan at all.
Robert Douglas Sun Jan 20 11:57:10 2019
Hi Shadow,
Thanks for the kind comments. I enjoyed writing The Curse of Drumer. It's a shame I got a bit carried away with the frequency of stats rolls. Since then, I've tried to limit their amount in future FF endeavours. Live and learn is a handy proverb; it's silly to repeat mistakes.
On a side-note, my bookworm marathon (over the past two years) will conclude in late Winter (early March). I'm currently reading Dan Snow's 'Death or Glory' - a gripping account of James Wolfe capturing Quebec - before my progression to 'War of the Wolf' by Bernard Cornwell. Oddly, the latter sounds like an FF title! After which I'll be free to write further FF adventures.
Shadow Sun Jan 20 14:18:10 2019
I share everyone's sentiments about the stat rolls - in particular there don't seem to be enough ways to restore luck so, even if you start with a luck of 12, at some point you're rolling against a score of 5 or 6. Also,
SPOILER
I believe your trip into Maddesby's house is just a series of 6 tests; including 4 skill, 1 stamina and 1 luck
END SPOILER
.
However I know this is something that has been mentioned a lot previously, and having attempted to write my own 'FF-style' stories in the past, I know how hard it can be. So I would like to praise the author for both his dedication and the amazing results that emerged. House of Hell was the first ever FF book I read, and as a 9-year old the picture of the goat-headed demon accompanying passage 222 (I think) was traumatizing, but helped get me really into the genre. So to have an adventure so closely linked to that great FF classic is truly satisfying, and immensely enjoyable to revisit the location after it was burnt down.
Aside from its continuity with Jackson's creation, the story itself is brilliantly well-written, with great character development and a certain flair that makes you want to read on, and therefore makes dying even more frustrating. The author should be very proud of his work, and whilst there are obviously a few minor issues, the story as a whole is fully engaging and should not bother a true FF fan at all.
paul Mon Mar 18 17:54:14 2019
killed by a vampire, oh the indignity. this was a fun gamebook, well plotted. some of the text is a little hammy, but it doesn't hinder it once you get into it.
Etienne Wed Jan 1 03:09:18 2020
I couldn't go through with it. I couldn't get into the dialogue which felt unrealistic to me considering the circumstances. It felt like a script for an Indiana Jones movie with the casual banter going on after someone's dad just died.
Too many references without choices as well. Reading from a reference to another reference without having any choices at all was disappointing to me. It felt linear at times and sort of like reading a book as opposed to being a participant in the story.
Still congratulations on writing the whole thing. Just not my cup of tea, not saying it's a not a good book.
Robert Douglas Fri Jan 3 17:04:48 2020
Hi Etienne, Sorry you didn't like the style of dialogue. Being an Indiana Jones fan (right from very beginning when Raiders was released in 1981) I'll take that as a compliment. Bear in mind that the gamebooks on this list automatically take into account what items/notes the player came across; as you pointed out there might be half a dozen references to read through before presenting you with a proper (click) choice of action/direction/test roll. TCOD's admittedly more linear design doesn't exactly follow a multi-branch map that you might find in, say, 'Scorpion Swamp' or the recent 'Gates of Death'. If you prefer the typical, old-school style of a gamebook, there is always the Downloads Section as an option. However, good news is that the gamebook I'm currently working on might more suit your tastes as regards dialled down dialogue, a simpler narrative, and a greater number of choices :)
Etienne Sat Jan 4 16:01:44 2020
Well it’s a matter of personal preferences. I think I had some expectations of something similar to House of Hell since it’s related. House of Hell had very little humor (if any) and focused on setting up a grim atmosphere.
I think I would’ve reacted differently if your book wasn’t somehow linked to HoH. I think an Indiana Jonesesque dialogue works nicely in an action/adventure context but in this case I believe this kind of character interaction does a disservice to anything horror-related.
Again, it depends what you’re going for. I can’t feel any immersion if the main character reacts in an unrealistic fashion. I think it’s perhaps why the communication of protagonists in ff games is often passive as opposed to actual text quotes because it facilitates immersion.
We all have ideas as to what gamebooks *should* be. I personally could never get into « Wrong Way Go Back » because of the comedic overtone. It’s not for me but I’m not saying it’s bad, it’s not what I’m looking for.
I think predictability is also a big element of immersion. Giving choices which are things someone in a certain situation would likely do. If the reaction is unthinkable or counter-intuitive, immersion is gone.
As for the amount of choices, I think that’s a key element when it comes to game books. A lot of realistic choices which provide a lot of different outcomes. As a player, I expect to take part in the story as opposed to passively being told what happens as this the nature of a book or novella.
I think if someone is very attached to the telling of a very specific story, it’s sometimes better to opt not to use the gamebook format. It allows the development of characters as the writer intends to as opposed to being based on the player’s decision.
I think a lack of agency hinders immersion, involvement and ultimately fun. In your gamebook, I could hardly continue when the protagonist would use quips while being pursued by crazed cultists. No one would ever react like that. I think running away in fear would be what most people would do, saving their breath to save their lives as opposed to saying: « I’ll take my chances! »
I’m writing all of this as feedback for your next creation. Feel free to dismiss my message, it’s just my opinion after all.
Robert Douglas Sat Jan 4 16:35:06 2020
Okay, thanks for the response and feedback :)
Rob Mon Apr 20 16:22:15 2020
Very well written and lengthy. Really enjoying it. Its would be great to find a way to identify longer novels in the home screen. This book feels like a real luxury amongst the shorter ones.
I have played this right after a House of Horror, almost as a double feature of a sort. After all, both are related to the same canon gamebook, House of Hell.
I'll say that reading the comments here after beating this might be the most mystified I have ever felt on here. One reason was all the discussion about a really simple puzzle early on, (though it seems like it used to be worse than it is right now?) and effectively nothing about everything else in those early stretches. To me, this work is almost every bit as as the House of Horror is good, and nearly everything redeeming about it comes way down the line. The background and early refs in this one are effectively the absolute worst out of every gamebook I have seen here - and by now, that's nearly all of them.
For starters, we literally do not know anything about his friends, Scott and Jimmy from that background and have no idea what that "important meeting" at a ruined house was meant to be about. All we see is the player character doing something obviously idiotic, yet we are supposed to care? The later revelation that they were all crims somewhat explains the venue, yet it effectively means that the protagonist blurted out the location of their secret criminal meeting to everybody at the pub, for zero good reason, so it at best replaces one idiocy with another. We never really learn why those two decided to pick that specific spot, or why they chose to arrive there days earlier, so all of Jimmy's whining rings particularly hollow.
Then, FF struggles to integrate guns at the best of times, for sure, but the approach here is even more arbitrary than that of Bodies in the Docks. The first proper action scene, at 181, is an accidental masterclass in incoherence. At the start, we are told that there are "a dozen" cultists (i.e. 12 at most, including the leader.) Yet, by the time we run past ALL OF THEM to the Land Rover, there are only two in the vicinity and a dog (which we shoot through our own windscreen, yet it apparently does not die.) We shoot one point-blank, the other one manages to struggle for control of the shotgun, the missed shot from shatters the leg of what is apparently another acolyte (since the first one would already be dead?).
Then, you somehow manage to hold onto the shotgun with one hand (even while the acolyte is pulling at it with two?) as you are unsheathing a knife that is now at your belt (even though the preceding ref 98 only mentions it being in your bag, and doesn’t describe you clipping it on) and stabbing with it. Then, you are pushing that guy who is heavily wounded in the stomach into a charging acolyte. (Which charging acolyte? Presumably not the one you shot point-blank or the one whose leg was shattered) So, we somehow go from dozen cultists, to two, to at least four, of whom three would be dead or incapacitated by them (while the high priest is just...forgotten about). Further, you STILL have 13 shotgun shells left at that point - more than there are cultists you could see, and apparently, none of them had any guns! Yet, instead of doing the reasonable thing and shooting them all, you "keep the smoking barrel trained in their general direction whilst darting back towards the relative safety of the ruins". Relative safety FROM WHAT?! If you are the only one who has the gun, for whatever reason, (since nobody shot at you while you were running to Land Rover in the first place - although some cultists do use guns later on), then out in the open you have range to use it. Someone had already tried to grab at your gun once, and the ruins would only give more chances to do just that.
This incredible looseness with setting out the parameters of each encounter (something which the subsequent Robert Douglas works were MUCH better at), makes the chase scenes afterwards feel nonsensical. You, a guy with a shotgun, and Jimmy, can end up hiding in a skull pit from three guys and a demon dog (of course, if you fail, you suddenly get instakilled with a crossbow). There's also a passageway narrow enough for you to shoot at them one by one if you tried - but you have to flee regardless. Yet, later on, you HAVE to fight six guys at once in melee, in the darkness, and you apparently win. It's just totally nonsensical.
Some, initial, aversion to killing COULD help explain this: after all, a criminal doesn't mean a murderer (and committing a lone murder and standing and shooting at a crowd are different things anyway). It doesn't, though, since that's the one thing the protagonist clearly DOESN'T feel. It takes until ref 10, more than halfway into the story, for our character to make ANY comment about anyone he just killed - and it's about the least sympathetic torturer cultist, to (justifiably) say he doesn't care. If you avoid taking a shotgun (you shouldn't) you can get a scene where he beats a cultist to death with a flashlight, with a hilarious lack of emotion.
YARD Thu Sep 21 17:16:22 2023
For that matter, that scene is also a hot mess: ref 265 says you have a torch from the start, yet you instead fight with a torch the cultist dropped, after trying to stab (?) you with it, instead of just attacking with a dagger immediately, like he does after losing the torch anyway. (And no, I have to assume the torch was electric, since you get the same reference to "flickering" regardless of whether or not you have a flashlight, and while holding both a shotgun and a flashlight is iffy, I don't even want to think about the mechanics of holding a shotgun and a wooden torch.)
Meanwhile, if you have a shotgun, then the only reason the torturer survives for long enough to be killed later on (unless you fail a sudden LUCK and SKILL check, which is all too possible, and one of the biggest barriers to lower-stat characters here) is because he manages to survive a shotgun blast by hiding behind a brazier then kicking it in your direction. Apparently, a brazier is not only bulletproof, but isn't going to wobble and spill any hot coals after getting shot at whatsoever, unlike when it's kicked. Similarly, your shotgun apparently has a range of 6 meters or so (I'll let you look up real-life ranges yourself) as you do not even TRY to shoot at a high priest when he is close enough to converse with you without difficulty. As I said, the narrative logic around firearms didn't seem to go remotely beyond "blasting cultists with big gun cool!" You do have to go through a SKILL check every time you shoot, though, just like in Bodies in the Docks (wouldn't be surprised if it was a direct inspiration.) The difference is that Bodies in the Docks didn't have scenes like ref 338 here
SPOILER
where you quickly leap at a cultist guard from the shadows, beat down and break his neck, then drag the body away and exchange clothing before his companion returns, mimic dead guy's voice and convince the companion to give you his gun while you clandestinely remove ammunition from it, then knock the companion out.
END SPOILER
- ALL OF WHICH happens without a single skill check. The difference between that, and a skill check fest that is the shootout with two fireball-flinging flying demons (who somehow continue to toss two fireballs at once, which must be dodged individually, even AFTER you destroyed one of them already) is very apparent. This doesn't have THAT big of an issue with long choice-free stretches when compared to most other Douglas' works, but these "pure Hollywood" refs where the character suddenly stops needing the dice and carries out feats many times more complex than the ones he just needed skill checks moments earlier, on autopilot, are incredibly out of place.
It doesn't help that pretty much as soon as you are out of the mansion's ruins (which happens quite quickly), and find characters in addition to Jimmy, the dialogue is either exposition or incredibly cringeworthy sub-Whedonite banter all the time. Jimmy at first stands in place and has a breakdown over father's death while cultists are trying to break through the door, then forgets effectively ALL about it and his personality is reduced to saying "bonnie" in EVERY OTHER SENTENCE. Unfortunately, out of the two paths to victory, it is the far more obvious one that brings you into contact with more people and forces you to suffer through far more dialogue and plot holes. The other path is just much, much better narratively, though it is sadly much less hospitable to characters without max SKILL, and still has some weirdness (317 instakills you even if you DO have the weapon which works in all the "adjacent" refs?)
YARD Thu Sep 21 17:30:51 2023
On the other hand, the "main path" is just completely illogical. To wit:
SPOILER
Interactions with the police are nonsensical. Priest's notes are triumphantly presented as "hard evidence", yet in no court of law would those scribbles count as anything of a sort. All they seem to contain is a secondhand claim to "hearing moans and screams" from Drumer's mansion on moonlit nights, and an admission to robbing from a museum. It's mystifying why the cultist detective is so stumped by them and settles for calling them a forgery, rather than dismissing it all as vague nonsense from a delusional, thieving clergyman?
For that matter, why wouldn't the detective press a point that if your story is true, you have just admitted that you only drove into town to attend a meeting for unlawful purposes, and to carrying lockpicks and what are likely unregistered firearms, and you should all be arrested just for that?
Or, if he wanted to go further, you have personally admitted to shooting several people, one of your friends admitted to fatally riding over two more, and you had beaten/stabbed another man to death mere hours ago on your way to the scene? Satanism was not illegal even in the 1980s (even protected under freedom of religion, for that matter); murder was and is, and there's zero proof any of it was in self-defence, adhered to reasonable force standards, etc. If the Detective arrests all of them for that (and accuses the Inspector of sympathizing with vigilantism if he tries to intervene), then sure, the investigation would also discover the torture chamber and all the remains in the ruins sooner or later, but if the ritual is literally imminent, then so what? The cult would have already won by then, and any time the police spend in the ruins pulls them away from looking in the direction of the castle.
And if you attempt to infiltrate the building, your supposedly experienced crim apparently doesn't even bother to wear a mask beforehand, as seen at 332. Likewise, you knock out two forensics, then automatically accept a ride from the police (!), and they somehow do not find their colleagues, decide that those weird men are prime suspects and contact the team in the very car you are in?
END SPOILER
Then again,
SPOILER
There should have probably been no reason for the police to be there at all. We are told that even a small silver crucifix is "repellent to their kind". Maddesby had MONTHS to search for Hreinleika: couldn't he have bothered to deck out his dwelling with way more crucifixes in all that time and protect the place? Likewise, there should have been enough time to fit Ettingley Hall with crucifixes and holy water all over the place, so it sounds like that poltergeist is their own fault.
Then again, the same people couldn't figure out not to meet their informer in a dark, large, abandoned building, rather than on the outside in the sunlight, and they failed to see a hundred people coming and going from a castle for who knows who long, so that's in character.
END SPOILER
YARD Thu Sep 21 17:50:58 2023
And of course, proofreading.
SPOILER
1 A sight now seen through more cautious eyes than this morning Terry's words continue to tumble around in your troubled mind. (comma?)
16 raises his havoc staff on high (what is that supposed to mean?! Is that meant to be more understandable if you read the canon book?)
38 stabs at you with his own torch. (?)
39 from a hollowed out section.
69 as sharp pointed teeth
95 Do not take to that sacrificial altar! + "Oh, thank God!" cries her friend. + Yet the arms do not release, only tighten. (their arms?) + could we have run to?" the first woman frowns + "Stay with us!" they both intone.
(I'll also say that this ref is remarkably sparse on detail, telling us little about the room and nothing about their appearance, age, clothing, etc.)
97 The once beautiful carpets
98 a pump action shotgun + sixteen twelve gauge shells
104 "Bonnie thing to have, Rich" (punctuation around it.)
108 a large leather bound notebook
120 and it'll too late
125 "Where is that wretched thing?" growls the torturer.
133 Those devil worshipping fanatics + he continues "you could say
135 "What have you lot been up to?" asks an aghast Sid.
140 "You poor fool!" he sneers at your drawn blade.
156 lying spreadeagled
159 "No!" it snarls.
179 It must be work related
182 "Show some respect!" growls an annoyed Richard.
196 "Home sweet home!" announces Richard . "Such as it is."
210 "The prisoner!" she gasps.
218 -the four 'chosen ones'
219 At first, you hope its Maddesby + "and drop your weapons. " + well placed to remove it
220 Spreadeagled upon
232 filled with the mouldering bones (?) + The ice cold touch
250 skull-face!" he laughs
256 Now that's quite something! you whistle.
265 , stood in the middle of the room next (to?) a brazier
289 "Have we done well, master?" fawns one.
290 on an alter (?) (and the other instances of the word as well.)
313 in locating hand-and foot-holds.
319 A rope nearby is pulled and the whole slab creaks aside. (pulled by whom?)
330 Despite your being more acclimatized + of an eight foot humanoid! (?)
333 signifies the acolytes entry
"Quick!" you lift
338 You lie in wait, listening the acolytes' idle chatter, (to?) + press the now empty gun + "What the-?" + Nicely done! you grin.
348 "Aye!" seconds Jimmy. + I'm sworn to uphold the law -as such, + dangerous men running amuck (?)
350 Mesmerized by these fantastic monsters, they clasp together (you watch as?) + quickly increasing intensity... (in?)
352 And that's all they are, guv!" snarls a younger man + I'll swear to the Lord above, on the bible (inconsistent capitalization?)
365 "Good show, old boy!" jubilates Richard.
368 cabalistic symbols + whatever that might be -as Scott and Jimmy.
378 "The castle is invaded!" it booms.
400 This is where it all started -but
405 "GET HIM!" he shouts whilst fleeing.
444 behind ghost stories and wives tales
496 Add 2 to your FEAR score rest and zeal of hope now flowing through your veins, (?)
END SPOILER
Robert Douglas Thu Sep 21 21:23:53 2023
Hello YARD,
Thanks for giving The Curse of Drumer a read. It's good to see enthusiasm from fellow fans, and constructive criticism is indeed welcome, in particular regarding gameplay and mechanics. It is important to get a balance. However, speaking of balance, you do yourself need to observe a certain degree of decorum with far less frustration when listing aspects which need work or improvement.
While I do understand your reading TCOD required several hours of your time, please remember planning and writing a standard 400-ref gamebook is at least ten times that amount. Furthermore, while it is done voluntarily, as a hobby, authors contributing to this website are not paid, unlike those within FF, Lone Wolf, and other series. While I'm absolutely fine with that, barbed reviews sting far more on here than on, for example, an Amazon listing - because at least the author is getting paid for their time and trouble. And a customer has a right to feel annoyed when spending a fiver or so on a book they ended up not enjoying. But even world-famous, wealthy paid artists (authors, illustrators, actors, rocks stars, etc) can struggle with difficult reviews. The late, great comedian Les Dawson mentioned in an interview that, during his early stage years, he received some hurtful comments - when his only 'crime' was to make people laugh - and not many were supportive nor positive towards his career in any way.
That you were 'mystified' by comments made by other FF fans in this thread, the answer is really quite simple: most of them enjoyed TCOD for what it was, while you clearly didn't. Fair enough! But if you can do any better, then please, go ahead and show us how it's done....
Robert Douglas Thu Sep 21 22:09:16 2023
Hi YARD,
I'd also like to point out some flaws in the points you made throughout the second paragraph:
SPOILER
1. The backgrounds to both Scott and Jimmy are not so plot important. TCOD is not about their entire life stories. 2. We do learn - confirmed later on during the dialogue with High Priest Isaacson - that they are petty criminals who were poking around in the ruins of a once old, possibly wealthy estate. Word of the great fire got around and somehow reached their ears. Again, it should be enough that they just happened to be in the area at the right time, or heard about it on or in the local news. Both saw the opportunity to hunt for antiques, had already made a start but shifting the heavy door required extra tools and expertise. Both men knew the player was the man for the job. However, by the time he does arrive, both Scott and Jimmy have incurred the wrath of the Brotherhood and been captured. 3. The player character has arranged to meet the friends at the ruins. Why is that idiotic? For the time being, he is unaware of the demonic dangers - as were his friends before being captured. Perhaps they didn't know the full truth of their plight? That they were simply at the mercy of a mad cult with no real power? Who can say? Even the author themself doesn't ponder over every little detail. However, one clue is: how does Jimmy react to the animated zombies and skeletons? Has he (and Scott) seen similar things already? 4. Although the Hero - himself a criminal - 'blurts' out the planned meeting location, then why should it matter? How would the locals know he is of criminal background? Strange as it sounds, he could simply be a tourist keen on exploring the ruins, a contractor hired to assess the damaged site for clearance, or even a photographer going after that special atmospheric location. And even if they suspect he's up to no good, then how are they going to respond to a possible threat to the Drumer estate? Indeed, why should they care about the preservation of Drumer's valuables when obviously they care more for the life and soul of a human being who so far has done them no harm? Saying it out loud shocks them, yet the player character is straight up being honest; attempting to hide the truth or simply shrug and stay silent can backfire with an adverse effect. Furthermore, he is a stranger to those parts, and needs directions. It is also equally possible that they suspect he is a friend of Drumer's, come to visit, but again: saying it out loud at least calms their suspicions. Even if the player was followed by some of the curious locals, what are they going to find? The player cursing and shouting as he makes his way down into the old cellar; hardly very inconspicuous. The meeting wasn't secret because, if anybody had followed them, they would have been chatting in a wide open space, or even the confines of the landrover. If the conversation was overheard, then it would be about looting the ruined house of Drumer, and nothing whatsoever regarding demonic worship or raising Drumer himself. Again, Terry might have followed the player from the Goat and Knife there and then - but then that wouldn't have made exciting material. Besides which, Terry (having already warned the player character who was too stubborn to listen) meanwhile went to Richard for his help in rescuing the Hero and Jimmy, by which time during the graveyard scene.
END SPOILER
YARD Fri Sep 22 19:35:26 2023
Hi!
And well, this was quite fast. By now, I went through every other one of your digitized adventures on here, sometimes over a month ago - but this is the very first time I receive a reply, and only hours later.
Yes, writing requires time and effort. So do a lot of things. By now, there are tens of thousands of video games you can download for free - and I am NOT talking about piracy or even abandonware. Often, their creators had to think about code, writing, art and music all at once. There's also the effort that goes into assembling even a short live-action film, or a full-length machinima, and many, many people have done those things for free as well. Let's just move on.
With your second response, I would like to mention theory of mind, if I may.
SPOILER
That is, the ability to accurately judge what a person would see and know at any given point, and make your own decisions based on that. I think this goes to the root of where I find issue with the scene.
1) As a reader, the main thing I know at the outset is that the player character obviously has to get to where he shouldn't for one reason or another - else there's not much of a story, but those reasons can still be good or bad, and it's up to the writing of the scene to make the difference. Here, your character effectively insults well-intentioned villagers there and in ref 1, which instantly creates a negative impression. In horror movies, characters who behave like that usually get themselves killed soon after.
If I am to believe that him driving to that ruin after everyone tells him not to go is worthwhile then yes, giving us a single reason to care about Scott and Jimmy from the outset, to know why it's worth risking life over them, is not a bad idea. As a writer, you might care about them as your creations by default, but I, a reader, do not.
2) Here is the really big inconsistency between player character's knowledge and behaviour.
"Indeed, why should they care about the preservation of Drumer's valuables when obviously they care more for the life and soul of a human being who so far has done them no harm? "
This is the thing. He has NO way to know what any of the patrons "obviously" care about until AFTER he had already revealed where he's going to them. As an out-of-towner, for all that he knows, people in the tavern could well be fans of the "late" Earl and NOT take kindly to him messing about there. (In fact, with how large the cult apparently is, it seems all-but-inevitable that cult members would have visited the place before, probably repeatedly (its name making itself appear Satanism-friendly would have only helped to make that a near-certainty), and the odds that at least one patron present at that time would have been a cultist actually don't seem all that low? Sure, Sid would not have taken kindly once he understood, but the corollary is that the cult could have then identified him as a target a lot earlier?)
Really, looting of recently abandoned estates tends to be frowned upon A LOT - you probably know that plenty of people think using lethal force on anyone looting someone else's property in the wake of a natural disaster is outright commendable. Plus, locals could also suspect them of other undesirable things, like drug smuggling. So, it really doesn't matter if he has no idea about the cult - it only takes ONE patron to call the police and say, "Hey, there are some suspicious blokes from out of town meeting up at the burned-down ruins, mind checking in on that place?" to TOTALLY ruin whatever all three were going for and potentially land all of them in jail as soon as the guns and the lockpicks are found. It may not be a VERY likely risk, but it is still an ENORMOUS downside with basically no upside.
END SPOILER
Lastly, worry not - I would not have committed myself to the effort of going through everything digitized on this website if I did not harbour the ambitions of writing one or more myself. I have certainly learned a lot about what to do (and what not to do) from the authors here, and barring unforeeseen circumstances, I intend to put that to good use, sooner rather than later.
P.S. A reminder to FFProject that one of my posts on this thread is still caught up in the filter?
Norman Fri Aug 9 00:45:22 2024
I can only assume the author was personally hurt by the House of Hell book and wanted to make a fun book where you blow away all the demons. I heartily approve.
Robert Douglas Fri Aug 9 12:53:04 2024
Hi Norman, thanks for playing, hope you enjoyed it, and well done for completing the adventure. In truth 'House of Hell' was one of my favourite FF titles back in the day - both in concept and design. But when writing a sequel, I didn't want to do something too similar, i.e. a house or dungeon layout. While 'The Curse of Drumer' lacks that sense of claustrophobic horror, and part of the adventure does take place indoors, it still has many terrifying twists and turns in the night. Use of guns was an added element of which I'm glad you approve - it worked for some, and not for others - and I reworked the Fear attribute in similar fashion to the Luck mechanic. I wanted it to penalize rather than simply accumulate to the dreaded max reached. From the beginning, in more ways than one, I didn't want it to be a clone of 'House of Hell'.