(In reply to Gamebook Fanatic's previous post)

This is some very interesting criticism you've given me!

Firstly, in regards to the fact that it (Hellfire) has "too many difficult combats", I would say that it probably does! However, I would quickly add that not all of them need to be faught: some can be avoided, others can be got rid of by the use of items (not all of which may be obvious in the combats themselves, especially the online edition).

As for your "fail one roll and die" accusation, I'm not entirely sure that I agree with you. I mean I'm not saying that it never happens but I just don't believe that it happened anywhere near as often as you may remember. For instance, when you compare this 'feature' to many other FF books (including just about any Ian Livingstone book; especially Crypt of the Sorcerer) I would say that they are not overused in either of my books.

When you say that you've "NEVER been able to win with a SKILL less than 11, and LUCK lower then 10" I would ask if you have ever tried the reading the Word version? You can find it on the Yahoo Gamebook and Fighting_Fantasy_Gamebook mailing lists. This version is much easier than the online edition because of two reasons. Firstly, you can use Luck in combat! Secondly, there are references in the text that do not appear in the online edition and may give you a few more clues. Suffice to say, whilst playing the Word version I have definitely managed to complete Hellfire with a Skill of 10 and Luck of 9. Although it must be said that even I struggle to win through with scores much lower than that.

I Would hope that I corrected many of the faults of Hellfire when I wrote Riders of the Storm and I would hope that you agree with me (the combats arn't as tough, there arn't as many essential items to collect and you can even stray from the path a bit!).

One last thing; when you say that (in reference to Riders of the Storm) "I still had a couple of questions unanswered by the end" would you mind telling me what these questions are, because I may well be able to help. If you do it may be best to use the 'spoiler' option up above for people who haven't completed it yet.

Right, thank you for your comments, I'm always happy to discuss the books I've wrote :)

Unless you have any objections, I'll put the Word version of Hellfire on the downloads page.

Matt
Thu Jun 23 07:04:42 2005
Hellfire

One day, I may be daring and attempt Hellfire + ROTS

Matt
Fri Jun 24 16:44:54 2005
General Chat

Crypt being my 2nd FF book, I never completed it and died at the start...

Phil Sadler Fri Jun 24 20:21:50 2005 Hellfire	I've no objections about the book being put on the downloads page.
	Thanks. It's there now.

Gamebook Fanatic
Sat Jun 25 10:50:16 2005
Hellfire

This is in reply to Phil's post. Sorry I took so long to respond, but I had been too busy to come online much this week.

I admit that some of the comparisons I raised in my previous post weren't entirely fair. I raised Crypt of the Sorcerer and Chasms of Malice as the most extreme examples in order to emphasize on the various difficulty elements I was trying to describe. I did point out in my post that "There aren't as many extreme-tough combats, but the few there are are enough to frustrate the readers for keep geting killed by the same encounter". I also said that the critical die rolls in your book are "not as unfair as Luke Sharp's infamous One-Stirke Combats", since only some of them actually kill you outright. But although an unlucky die roll doesn't mean instant death, I found most of them to be deadly in the long run. I've already mentioned that a high Skill is required to finish the game. An unlucky die roll while fighting the Cockatrice means either an instant death or a huge drain in your Skill. Another unlucky roll later in the game drains off about 3 more Skill when you are climbing some wall. There are also a few other similar stat-draining traps that are totally random by die rolls. Without these precious Skill you are as good as dead when you enconter the few tough monsters that you have to fight. I particularly dislike a certain arena in the game, where you have to let the dice decide not only the monster you fight, but also your own stats. More than once I managed to roll up a character with high stats in the beginning, and thought I would have an easier time in the game, only to be killed in the arena because my character was suddenly turned into a Skill 7 Stamina 7 wimp. As I said, these aren't as bad as failing One-Strike Combats, since you do have a slight chance of survival, but the frustration of getting screwed by the dice repeatedly even though you didn't make any wrong choices is rather similar.

I do admit that I overlooked the 'Using Luck in Battle" rules. I think it's a pity that they would probably not be added to this site, and yes, they probably would have made the combats easier. However, that raises another thing about this book which I find to be a problem. I'm not sure if I could afford to spend these Luck to preserve Stamina. One annoying point about Hellfire is that it seems fairly demanding with all 3 of your stats. Allow me to bring in some of the other Gamebooks on this site as comparison. House of Horror doesn't require very high stats. Rebels of the Dark Chasms requires high Skill for some critical Skill rolls, but doesn't require high Luck. In Trial of Alibor's Tomb, I found that Luck was the most critical stat, since there are hardly any Luck restores in the game. Outsider requires you to have either a high Skill or a high Psychic score, but not both of them. In Hellfire, however, I found all the stats to be equally important, and usually equally lacking. Stamina is constantly drained during the game. This is usually expected in RPG, but the problem I have with this is that most of the stat drains in your game are necessary and cannot be avoided. It is fair enough to punish the reader if he makes a foolish choice, but to punish him for finding a necessary equipment is just plain unfair. It doesn't help that there are so many of these items in the game. You probably did it to confuse the players as to which are the required items, but I think it is a tactic that backfires. Skill and Luck are also drained in the same way, which may lead to you failing a Skill or Luck roll later in the game, leading to more losses in your stats, which leads to more failing of rolls...... and so on, until you eventually run out of stats altogether. Whenever I play Hellfire, I always have a problem with deciding which of the three stat potions I should pick, since more often than not I need all three.

(edit: post too long, conitnue next post :P)

Gamebook Fanatic
Sat Jun 25 10:51:28 2005
Hellfire

(continued from previous post)

Also, I said in my previous post that different writers tend to have different ways of making their books challenging. Luke Sharp over-abuses critical die rolls, but he doesn't require you to stick to one path. There aren't any 'true paths' in his books, or there are so many of them that it isn't a problem finding your destination. Ian Livingstones gives you tough fights and makes you fight everything that moves, but he doesn't confuse you with secret passages. Paul Mason makes you play Red Riding Hood and stick to the path, but you don't need to fight a lot. Even his infamous "super mudworm" (which he claims to be a mistake) wasn't on the true path. Likeiwise, readers tend to have different preferences for the kind of challenges they like, and once they know a writer's style they'd know which to avoid. Hellfire, though, had most of those challenges: secret passages, a narrow true path, plenty of combats to go through(a few of them very hard), lots of items to find, and some irritating but important random die rolls. That's just too many different difficulty elements in one book. So while I believe you when you said playing the Word format would be easier, I still think the difficulty level is just a little too high. The combination of so many different kinds of difficulty was what made me call it "more difficult than all the original FF books", although now that I thought further about it, I agree that I was a little too harsh, especially considering that the Word format would indeed be easier. Another good point I would like to add is that, unlike some of the original FF books, this book's ending isn't a disappointment, and finishing it does feel rewarding, it's almost like coming to the end of a great epic.

And yes, I agree that Riders of the Storms is very much an improvement in game mechanism. The difficulty level is much better, the combats are mostly easier. Like I said before, you can a least beat ROTS without double-figured stats. You still need a hell lot of Stamina, but at least you know which stat you should focus on, unlike the previous book. Also, you seemed to have focused on only a few of the difficulty elements you employed in the previous book, such as hidden references, instead of putting them all in this book as well. And the annoying stat-draining equipment is gone. That's why I said in my post that I certainly wouldn't mind seeing more books from you.

As to my unanswered questions about ROTS, they are mostly in regarding to the storyline of the book. None of them are essential to finishing the game, but I would certainly appreciate it if you would answer them. As you suggested, under spoiler:

SPOILER

END SPOILER

These are all I can think of now. As I said, none of them affects your playing of the game, but I'm usually curious about the plots of the books I read, even if it's just a gamebook. Thanks in advance. I hope you take no offence to my citicisms. And sorry for having to put up with my long-winded posts. :)

Phil Sadler
Sat Jun 25 11:35:00 2005
Hellfire

I had never realised just how tough Hellfire could be until I read your post! I guess it certainly helps if you're the one who wrote the book :o)

Anway, I'll try and answer your questions:

SPOILER

END SPOILER

Some very interesting questions. I hope I've answered them well enough.

Gamebook Fanatic
Sat Jun 25 12:51:25 2005
Hellfire

Hey, that was fast! Thanks for answering my questions so promptly. However, I'm still not sure about Question 5:

SPOILER

END SPOILER

Phil Sadler
Sat Jun 25 20:34:54 2005
Hellfire

I'll try to answer as best I can:

SPOILER

END SPOILER

ffproject
Sat Jul 2 14:11:34 2005
The Black Lobster

The Black Lobster

I've added Andrew Wright's latest, The Black Lobster, to the downloads page. An online version will follow within the next few weeks.

Rich
Fri Jul 15 12:51:43 2005
General Chat

A mate of mine showed me this site. We were both into these books in the 80s.
Remember writing one together, drawing the map with boxes and decisions which went off to other boxes. Very cool. I'm sure one of us still has the map!
I started playing one of the online ones and you know what? I started to feel the excitement again! (You'd think I'd be too old for it by now).
Very cool site. Blast from the past. I wonder if SJ and IL still write the books, or whether they do it online? Didn't one of them also do Eureka on the C64 and Spectrum? Fantastic game for it's time.

Rich. http://monoecho.com

Daramouss
Sat Jul 16 19:07:55 2005
Hellfire

Well done and thank you for such a brilliant site! It certainly brings back memories...

Seeing as it is something of a trend here, I was wondering if anyone could help with Hellfire as I'm stuck facing the Trinitour. I've got all the items you need to fight him but he then goes on to say they need powering up. I've tried using the lamp and the multicoloured orb and just end up dying. Which item do you have to use?

Phil Sadler
Sat Jul 16 21:02:19 2005
Hellfire

Trinotour: powering up

SPOILER

END SPOILER

daramouss
Wed Jul 20 12:01:08 2005
Hellfire

Whew! Finally completed Hellfire! Thank for the info and the excellent gamebook Phil. Time to try Riders of the Storm...

stirlock
Tue Jul 26 15:33:05 2005
The Black Lobster

Hi. Going through the downloads on the site, I noticed that there was a gamebook there, (The Black Lobster by Andrew Wright) that is not on the main site. I was just curious why this is?
Thanks.

stirlock
Tue Jul 26 15:43:49 2005
The Black Lobster

Woops, just saw the news. Kindly disregard my last message.

eva Wed Jul 27 20:36:23 2005 General Chat	Hi, I was just wondering if the source code for the programming used is available at all? Obviously, this is not for commerical use or anything, but for a programming class - I am trying to create something similar using a very basic gamebook I wrote for a tutorial and don't know where to start. Thanks!
	Sorry, but I do not intend to make the source code available. I doubt that it would be much use for you anyway as it is geared so much towards online play (I assume what you intend is something that will run on a PC not a remote server).

stirlock
Thu Jul 28 16:47:25 2005
Riders Of The Storm

Hi, I have a question about riders of the storm. What do you need to get past the sirens?

eva Thu Jul 28 19:27:24 2005 General Chat	You're right, I do want to make something for PC. Thanks anyway. Just wondering - did you find it best to use C/++ or C# or something completely different?
	I used C, this being mainly a personal choice, but also because it is fairly easy to find web hosts that offer C compilers. If I was doing what you are doing I think my choice of language would be driven by how I wanted my user interface to look and what graphics libraries I could find. But I would always try and use C if possible.

Phil Sadler
Thu Jul 28 21:35:25 2005
Riders Of The Storm

"Hi, I have a question about riders of the storm. What do you need to get past the sirens?"

SPOILER

END SPOILER

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