Thank you, Al.

I am seriously considering using preset scores.

Perhaps there could be a difficulty setting of some sort:
EASY: SK: 10 ST: 22 LK: 12
MEDIUM: Sk: 9 ST: 18 LK: 10
HARD: SK: 8 ST: 14 LK: 9

That could also be a solution.

fighting dantasy
Fri Jun 15 02:36:09 2007
Publicity

I've recently got a massive box of the original fighting fantasy gamebooks, writing a blog about them - http://fightingdantasy.blogspot.com. If any of you are interested...

Question
Fri Jun 15 02:37:29 2007
The Diamond Key

Al,

What mistakes have you learned after writing your gamebook?

Are there any things you would've done differently?

If so, what?

Ulysses Ai
Fri Jun 15 09:27:32 2007
The Diamond Key

Hi 'Question'

Here are my views for your consideration.

I think it's best to write a short gamebook to start with. Only a complete fool would write a long story first.
The Diamond Key was originally intended to be only 500 references long, but I was running out of references as the story progressed, so I expanded it to 600, then 700, and so on until 1000.
There is nothing wrong with a 1000-reference story in itself; but being so large makes it very difficult for you to look through and refine or make changes. The Diamond Key was my first attempt at a gamebook, and it has turned out to have numerous problems that could have been easily identified and corrected in a short gamebook.
That role of identifying problems is something that should definitely be shared with at least one other person just to get different perspectives on things. I didn't do this before I submitted my works to this site and so readers have had to point these things out, spoiling their experience of playing the gamebooks.
With regards to combat systems, the traditional FF system has one unparalelled virtue: simplicity. My reasons for altering this system as seen in The Diamond Key was to allow a meaningful variety of equipment options. I also designed it with this site in mind. For a text-only gamebook, I would not have bothered the readers with such a tedious system. Whatever your system is, just be mindful of the complexity of it. I think few people want to do a page of mathematics to see if they win a fight or not.
The most important thing is for your story to have a good plot and be well-written. Good luck, hope we can all see your work soon.

Question
Sat Jun 16 06:58:07 2007
The Diamond Key

Hmm... I guess I'm a bit of a fool as I'm going to go for a full 400 references... 0_0

I completely agree with your view as far as the combat system is concerned. My format is also with this website in mind so as far as the player's experience is concerned, it will be as simple for them but also more exciting. Or so I hope at the very least.

This is also my first serious attempt at a gamebook after giving up countless time because my projects were too ambitious and I lost my steam halfway through.

But I'm confident about the plot and I think the writing itself is of good quality.

I'll keep in mind to send my "manuscript" to someone else first to play test it, probably Andy.

As I've said before, any other suggestions and ideas would be very welcomed.

Age of Fable
Sat Jun 16 10:29:59 2007
The Diamond Key

suggestions re writing an adventure:

I didn't do this with my site, but now wish I had - start with an ultra-short (eg 10 paragraphs) complete adventure, then elaborate from there, rather than starting from paragraph 1 and trying to write 400 (or whatever) paragraphs in one go.

If nothing else, if you only end up writing 100 paragraphs, you'll have a complete 100 paragraph adventure rather than a quarter-finished 400 paragraph one.

So you could start by having a 10 paragraph adventure which is: you start by being given your mission in your home town, you can go shopping or set out straight away, if you set out straight away you can go via the mountains or the main road, if you go via the mountains you need the item you bought when shopping or you die, if you go via the road you fight somthing, either way you get to the end where you fight the main villain, the end.

Then you could elaborate by saying in the mountains, if you don't have the item you can test your luck, and if you succeed you don't die but just take a lot of damage.

Then you could elaborate by saying on the main road, there's an inn you can stay at, and if you do something happens which makes the final combat easier, but it requires gold which you will have spent if you went shopping.

Then you could come up with a way of getting enough gold to both go shopping and stay at the inn - perhaps something happens to you at the city gates...

and so on.

Age of Fable
Sat Jun 16 10:31:40 2007
The Diamond Key

Also, if I can do a shameless plug: my Adventure Ideas Generator might help you think of ideas - it's at www.apolitical.info/webgame/ideas.php

Age of Fable
Sat Jun 16 10:33:42 2007
The Diamond Key

quote from Ulysses:
> I think few people want to do a page of mathematics to see if they win a fight or not.

Bizarrely, a lot of role-players seem to love doing exactly that :)

Question
Sat Jun 16 12:57:29 2007
The Diamond Key

46 paragraphs finished :-)

Age of Fable:
I've checked your link. As far as I can tell there's only four ideas there. Do you plan in adding more in the near future? That would be good! ;-)

I think your way of doing things is actually a really good idea. Too bad I had already started when I read your suggestion! Oh well. Next time definitely...

More ideas would be most welcomed.

Age of Fable
Sat Jun 16 16:00:08 2007
The Diamond Key

> I've checked your link. As far as I can tell there's only four ideas there. Do you plan in adding more in the near future? That would be good! ;-)

It picks a few plot elements at a time, from a much larger list.

At the top of the screen there's a bit that says "to get a new list, click here" - 'click here' is a link that re-loads the page, with new ideas.

Gaetano
Sun Jun 17 05:31:17 2007
The Diamond Key

The most important thing about writing an adventure is to have fun. You are doing it on on your own free time, relatively few people will read it, and you won't make any money off of it. So have fun. I think many people start off too ambitiously, plannning a 600 paragraph epic, and then, as was mentioned, lose steam halfway through.

So I say, have fun with it, don't be afraid to be original and try something different, and also be open to all types of comments (positive and negative). Realize that everyone has their preferences, and if someone does not like an aspect of your work, try and really understand what their criticism is; perhaps it will help you with future endeavors.

Most of us are "little fish", meaning that we won't be published, and so it is very gratifying to have your work up on a site like this and to get numerous comments from readers.

Question
Sun Jun 17 07:14:18 2007
The Diamond Key

Thank you Gaetano. I am having a good time writing it and trying to learn as many new words as I can in the process.

80 references and counting...

I would like to propose my combat mechanic here so that I can modify it if it somehow turns out to be unfeasible before the "final release"

Combat
Combat has also been modified to the following rules:

The difference between you and your opponent’s attack power determines the amount of STAMINA lost.

Look at the following chart to figure out how to deal damage:

Attack power difference
1-2 3-4 4-5 6-7 8-9 10+
Damage dealt
(STAMINA LOSS) 1 2 3 4 5 INSTANT KILL

Example:
You are fighting a DRUNK GOBLIN.
YOU
SKILL: 9 STAMINA: 18 LUCK: 10

DRUNK GOBLIN
SKILL: 7 STAMINA: 10 LUCK: 7
#1
You both roll two die and add your skill to determine your Attack Strength.
#2
You roll 8 and add your skill (9) for total of: 8+9=17
DRUNK GOBLIN rolls 6 and adds his SKILL (7): 6+7=13
#3:
You win this round by 4 points! (17-13) You inflict 2 STAMINA.

SECOND ROUND:

YOU
SKILL: 9 STAMINA: 18 LUCK: 10

DRUNK GOBLIN
SKILL: 7 STAMINA: 8 LUCK: 7
#1:
You roll 10
DG rolls 4
#2:
Attack Strength: 10+9=19
A.S.: 7+4=11
#3:
You once again win this round by 8 points! You inflict 5 STAMINA wound!

ROUND 3:
#1:
Your roll: 11
DG roll: 3
#2:
Your AS: 20
DG AS: 10
#3:
You also win this round by 10 points! You instantly kill the DRUNK GOBLIN.

Everything is kind of wonky as I copied form word but it should still give an ideas.

Do comment and critic as much as possible. I'll then decide whatever modifications I would like to apply.

Question
Sun Jun 17 07:18:18 2007
The Diamond Key

Oh yeah, before I forget,

SPOILER

END SPOILER

I think it's worth a shot.

Gaetano, did you draw a map of your references or did you fix everything on the go, making up the stories as you go along?

Question
Sun Jun 17 07:21:36 2007
The Diamond Key

Oh yeah, before I forget,

SPOILER

END SPOILER

I think it's worth a shot.

Gaetano, did you draw a map of your references or did you fix everything on the go, making up the stories as you go along?

Phil Sadler
Sun Jun 17 07:56:59 2007
The Diamond Key

Your combat system seems interesting but I still think it could be simplified and made better for it. How about this:

You simply compare the Attack Strengths of you and your opponent and then deduct the difference from the loser's stamina? In this way you would be able to inflict some truly terrible wounds on weak foes and kill them in a couple of hits. Yet stronger foes would put up a real fight.

QUESTION
Sun Jun 17 11:11:21 2007
The Diamond Key

Hello Phil.

Thank you for your comment.

I do think your idea is much more simple and would probably be easier to implement for Andy.

The thing is I've also come up with a damage chart for enemies.

Every enemy in the game can either be classified as:

PUNY
WEAK
AVERAGE
STRONG
MIGHTY
DEADLY

For example:

DRUNK GOBLIN (AVERAGE)
SKILL: 7 END: 12

Here's the following charts for each category:
PUNY

Attack power difference
1-4 5-6 7+
Damage dealt
(STAMINA LOSS) 1 2 3

WEAK

Attack power difference
1-3 4-5 6-7 8+
Damage dealt
(STAMINA LOSS) 1 2 3 4

AVERAGE

Attack power difference
1-2 3-4 5-6 7-8 9+
Damage dealt
(STAMINA LOSS) 1 2 3 4 5

STRONG

Attack power difference
1-2 3-4 5-6 7-8 9+
Damage dealt
(STAMINA LOSS) 2 3 4 5 6

MIGHTY

Attack power difference
1 2-3 4-5 6-7 8-9 10+
Damage dealt
(STAMINA LOSS) 2 3 4 5 6 7

DEADLY

Attack power difference
1 2-3 5-6 7-8 9 10+
Damage dealt
(STAMINA LOSS) 3 4 5 6 7 INSTANT KILL

This, in my opinion would lead to some really interesting battles.

For instance a Giant might have a very low SKILL, say 6 but still be MIGHTY. This would mean that it would be easy to avoid his blows but whenever he hits, it would cause loads of damage.

The same could be true for smaller more nimble creatures with HIGH SKILL but low damage. I think it would reflect each creature in a more realistic way.

I did think about what you said but the problem with what is should the player be involved in a fight and he unfortunately rolls a really low score, he could a huge amount of STAMINA.

I find that the tables are less brutal in a way. A good score increases damage but not by too much.

I could boost both the player and the creatures STAMINA to fix this but to me there's something odd about a GOBLIN having 20 STAMINA, it's just not very FFesque.

I don't think it would be too hard for Andy to program as ALL creatures fit into one of the six categories.

Thank you for your input. I've certainly thought about it after reading it. It depends a lot on Andy as well. I might very well take you on this advice in the long run.

Anyone with other suggestion about the battle mechanics, I would appreciate further input. For example if you think that the enemies damage chart should be tweaked.

Phil Sadler
Sun Jun 17 15:54:38 2007
The Diamond Key

I thought about adding damage tables to my own books but never quite got around to doing so. What I had in mind was something along the lines of this: you roll your attack strengths and then compare the dice rolled to the damage table of the victor, like so...

Pixie ( a very weak creature)
2: misses you - gain 1 luck
3-5: scratches you - 1 damage
6-7: wounds you - 2 damage
8-11: deeply wounds you - 3 damage
12: casts spell at you - lose 1 luck

Demon (very strong)
2: grazes you - 1 damage
3-5: wounds you - 2 damage
6-9: deeply wounds you - 3 damage
10-11: damages your shield/armour - lose 1 skill
12: disarms you - lose 3 skill for rest of fight

As you can see there is quite a bit you can do with the relatively limited number of stats that is skill/stamina/luck.

Question
Mon Jun 18 02:17:14 2007
The Diamond Key

Hello again Phil,

The problem I see with your suggestion is the complexity of it.

I think it would be difficult for Andy to program some specifics for each creature in my book.

I like the idea of each creature having some special ability however.

I was always frustrated to encounter a LIZARD MAN with the exact same stats has a ZOMBIE. This made encounters bland and uninteresting.

I was thinking of implementing special charts but only for certain special enemies. Losing SKILL and LUCK would then be included in those charts.

Basically, I like your idea and will definitely implement it but only for certain special characters.

It all depends on Andy as well. As he will be programming the whole thing, his decision will have a huge impact on the format.

This being said, I hope he can manage as everything I've written so far is based on those rules.

Q.

Question
Mon Jun 18 02:21:49 2007
The Diamond Key

Actually the more I think about your idea the more I'm liking it.

Age of Fable
Mon Jun 18 10:01:29 2007
The Diamond Key

re combat blandness:

I like the idea of damage tables, with more varied results than just damage eg a Pixie might cast a spell that transports you to a different location, or make itself disappear, or a Giant might capture you.

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